Richard Dawkins: The God Delusion.

[shtreimel]

Shtreimel - I can't believe you got me to flame an old man, we'll see what his temperment is like.

The good rabbi has been man-handling atheists for a year or so...he's in good form.

[Machinesworking]

Shtreimel - I can't believe you got me to flame an old man, we'll see what his temperment is like.

The good rabbi has been man-handling atheists for a year or so...he's in good form.

I dunno man?

And even the USSR was not a very great beacon of scientific discovery.

To me, what's the point of arguing with him? This statement alone is capable of generating pages of contradicting nonsense. I seem to recall a little chapter in history where the US was competing in space with the USSR? it seems to me they beat us in every major event except the moon? But hey, if he sez they aren't a beacon, then who am I to judge?

I mean gee, I'm just some disgusting man right?
Seriously shtreimel, I might not agree with you on many points, but it's not my intention to make you feel small in the least. I don't see any compassionate reason to start a conversation with an insult, and if you go back to my first post here in this thread you'll see that's my least favorite part of Dawkin's approach; the fact that he starts the conversation by calling religious people deluded.

.......but your rabbi doesn't even concern himself with the facts, so why bother talking to him IMO, it's not worth the effort.

[JACKAL & HYDE]

Georges LeMaitres Big Bang aka "The standard model" and Hubble's Law come to mind. The Universe is expanding. That means that the Universe itself is expanding from nothing into unknown infinity. Not 15 Billion years ago there was this big black area of empty space and all of a sudden an explosion happened within it and all this matter started flying around creating everything. The known Universe we see today is still the expanding explosion itself. Cosmic background radiation proves this.

So I guess the question is, what was before the bang?

No. The universe is expanding at different speeds which indicates that it's a series of expansions and shrinkings. Take a rubber band, put some dots on it, pull on it and watch how some dots move faster than others. That's what's been observed of different celestial bodies in the universe, they are moving away/toward us at different speeds. So, it's thought that the universe has and always will expand, contract, expand, contract...

.

Not buying that.. The Universe is 13 gigalight-years across and science has said over and over that the Universe is roughly 15 Billion years old. First science says there was a Big Bang and proves it, (along with Hubble himself) then, science sees all the Religious so called God freaks saying, "Well that makes sense to creation" so then, all the scientists look for an answer to debunk thier own thesis. Hilarious.

With smoke/mirrors and a chalk board any intelligent person can debunk anything to the less educated. How do you explain the Cosmic background radiation?

Looks like a fckn explosion to me > http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... n%26sa%3DN

I think I'll stick with NASA/Bell Labs and MITs explanation on the Bang theory for now...

[Machinesworking]

Georges LeMaitres Big Bang aka "The standard model" and Hubble's Law come to mind. The Universe is expanding. That means that the Universe itself is expanding from nothing into unknown infinity. Not 15 Billion years ago there was this big black area of empty space and all of a sudden an explosion happened within it and all this matter started flying around creating everything. The known Universe we see today is still the expanding explosion itself. Cosmic background radiation proves this.

So I guess the question is, what was before the bang?

No. The universe is expanding at different speeds which indicates that it's a series of expansions and shrinkings. Take a rubber band, put some dots on it, pull on it and watch how some dots move faster than others. That's what's been observed of different celestial bodies in the universe, they are moving away/toward us at different speeds. So, it's thought that the universe has and always will expand, contract, expand, contract...

.

Not buying that.. The Universe is 13 gigalight-years across and science has said over and over that the Universe is roughly 15 Billion years old. First science says there was a Big Bang and proves it, (along with Hubble himself) then, science sees all the Religious so called God freaks saying, "Well that makes sense to creation" so then, all the scientists look for an answer to debunk thier own thesis. Hilarious.

With smoke/mirrors and a chalk board any intelligent person can debunk anything to the less educated. How do you explain the Cosmic background radiation?

Looks like a fckn explosion to me > http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... n%26sa%3DN

I think I'll stick with NASA/Bell Labs and MITs explanation on the Bang theory for now...

Like I said earlier, I never bought the theory that the entirety of the universe fit into a smaller area then exploded as a singularity. This didn't make sense to me at 12 years old, and doesn't now. Simple question, at the end of the universe, what lies beyond? The most obvious answer is another universe, ad infinitum........
To me, god is a construct of our finiteness in an infinite universe, and so is the single bang theory. No pun intended!

But to clarify, to me, it's not possible to prove that god doesn't exist, just as it's not possible to prove god does. The question being why waste time and effort trying to prove that your sacred text is the word of god when you cannot? and why let the prejudices of that text define the political and scholastic climate of our time? especially when plenty of it's doctrine is willingly ignored out of practicality.

[BoimB son of BoB]

No. The universe is expanding at different speeds which indicates that it's a series of expansions and shrinkings. Take a rubber band, put some dots on it, pull on it and watch how some dots move faster than others. That's what's been observed of different celestial bodies in the universe, they are moving away/toward us at different speeds. So, it's thought that the universe has and always will expand, contract, expand, contract...

.

Not buying that.. The Universe is 13 gigalight-years across and science has said over and over that the Universe is roughly 15 Billion years old. First science says there was a Big Bang and proves it, (along with Hubble himself) then, science sees all the Religious so called God freaks saying, "Well that makes sense to creation" so then, all the scientists look for an answer to debunk thier own thesis. Hilarious.

With smoke/mirrors and a chalk board any intelligent person can debunk anything to the less educated. How do you explain the Cosmic background radiation?

Looks like a fckn explosion to me > http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... n%26sa%3DN

I think I'll stick with NASA/Bell Labs and MITs explanation on the Bang theory for now...

Like I said earlier, I never bought the theory that the entirety of the universe fit into a smaller area then exploded as a singularity. This didn't make sense to me at 12 years old, and doesn't now. Simple question, at the end of the universe, what lies beyond? The most obvious answer is another universe, ad infinitum........
To me, god is a construct of our finiteness in an infinite universe, and so is the single bang theory. No pun intended!

But to clarify, to me, it's not possible to prove that god doesn't exist, just as it's not possible to prove god does. The question being why waste time and effort trying to prove that your sacred text is the word of god when you cannot? and why let the prejudices of that text define the political and scholastic climate of our time? especially when plenty of it's doctrine is willingly ignored out of practicality.

i do not agree, big bang is te most probable event to explain bckground radiation. the idea of the universe being the result of an expansion of a singulaity is an elegant one and the most probable. were i do absolutely NOT agree is the fact that this event must be seen as 'an act of a creator'. there is absolutely no evidence or even hinting that a CREATOR is needed to produce the big bang. it is one in a billion theories. the creator theory is way behind some other plausible explanations that DO have supporting evidence. there is the multiverse theorie with black holes (the big ang singularity has some fundamental analogs with the singularity of a black hole). one evidence supporting the multi-universe is the origin of gravity which has been and still is one of the most difficult fundamental forces to explain (because it is a very weak force). gravity can very elegantly be explained by looking at it as leaking in from an other universe/dimension nearby.

this is what makes scientist more open minded than people who JUST believe stuff. a scientist does not a priori takes something for true, nor does he a priori claims something to be false. you can see THE CREATOR as jhust an alternative theorie (a lame one IMO ) with asolutely no rational support. it is not enough to be surprised of the greatness of our surroundings to conclude a CREATOR. THAT is narrow mindedness of the godspeople blala.

science is not religion in that science is a METHOD that does not CLAIM thins or prescribes us anything about how the world works. it is a method of how to investigate and try to UNDERSTAND our surroundings. thus, it has nothing to do with BELIEVING in something. i just want to repeat this 1trilions of times, because some people just don't WANT to get this one right in their heads.

[JACKAL & HYDE]

Not buying that.. The Universe is 13 gigalight-years across and science has said over and over that the Universe is roughly 15 Billion years old. First science says there was a Big Bang and proves it, (along with Hubble himself) then, science sees all the Religious so called God freaks saying, "Well that makes sense to creation" so then, all the scientists look for an answer to debunk thier own thesis. Hilarious.

With smoke/mirrors and a chalk board any intelligent person can debunk anything to the less educated. How do you explain the Cosmic background radiation?

Looks like a fckn explosion to me > http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... n%26sa%3DN

I think I'll stick with NASA/Bell Labs and MITs explanation on the Bang theory for now...

Like I said earlier, I never bought the theory that the entirety of the universe fit into a smaller area then exploded as a singularity. This didn't make sense to me at 12 years old, and doesn't now. Simple question, at the end of the universe, what lies beyond? The most obvious answer is another universe, ad infinitum........
To me, god is a construct of our finiteness in an infinite universe, and so is the single bang theory. No pun intended!

But to clarify, to me, it's not possible to prove that god doesn't exist, just as it's not possible to prove god does. The question being why waste time and effort trying to prove that your sacred text is the word of god when you cannot? and why let the prejudices of that text define the political and scholastic climate of our time? especially when plenty of it's doctrine is willingly ignored out of practicality.

i do not agree, big bang is te most probable event to explain bckground radiation. the idea of the universe being the result of an expansion of a singulaity is an elegant one and the most probable. were i do absolutely NOT agree is the fact that this event must be seen as 'an act of a creator'. there is absolutely no evidence or even hinting that a CREATOR is needed to produce the big bang..

Yea no "evidence" with conviction ya fucking idiot... So Einstein, what was here before the fuckin "Big Bang" genius? ? ? You don't know, but you feel good about yourself with a shoulder shrug and a "Fuckn God doesnt exist"? You see the God Damned "back Ground radiation pictures from NASA" and throw it off as what? Nothing? I think if Jesus came down into your bedroom and gave you head you'd still not believe there was a God ya fuckin dumbass.
NASA/M.I.T and JPL are all wrong about the "Big Bang" and your fckn ass is right? Pffft... ? <insert the biggest lol in the Universe here> Night

[eyeknow]

holy crap, this thing is still going on.

Look, it's all very nice to see so many passionate people with some very good information.....but......if there is one thing you can put in the bank and collect interest on it's that WE DON'T KNOW SHIT!!!!!!!!!

Not a putdown at all, it's just that the universe, science and such are so much more complicated than we can comprehend at this point in time.

For cryin' out loud, a few short years ago "string theory" was the IN thing...and even THAT has been shot to hell in most ways.......although

-There are more dimentions than we can concieve (fact, though we'll probably be dead once it's proved..........maybe then not fact ?)
-There are so many secrets in the universe we (any incarnation of man) will never really understand.
-How the fuck is it that marlboros show up with the battlestar galactica fleet? I mean wtf? How did that damn company get product that far out? And THEN, the commercials are for STOP SMOKING......ugggg........talk about have your cake and eat it!

[JACKAL & HYDE]

holy crap, this thing is still going on.

Look, it's all very nice to see so many passionate people with some very good information.....but......if there is one thing you can put in the bank and collect interest on it's that WE DON'T KNOW SHIT!!!!!!!!!

Not a putdown at all, it's just that the universe, science and such are so much more complicated than we can comprehend at this point in time.

For cryin' out loud, a few short years ago "string theory" was the IN thing...and even THAT has been shot to hell in most ways.......although

-There are more dimentions than we can concieve (fact, though we'll probably be dead once it's proved..........maybe then not fact ?)
-There are so many secrets in the universe we (any incarnation of man) will never really understand.
-How the fuck is it that marlboros show up with the battlestar galactica fleet? I mean wtf? How did that damn company get product that far out? And THEN, the commercials are for STOP SMOKING......ugggg........talk about have your cake and eat it!

Its like watching dumb ants in an antfarm argue about the sand thier walking on...

Like a bunch of cockroaches exclaiming "We live in Garbagecans and these Gabagecans are the end of the Universe, we can proove this over and over to you by watching the garbage cans fly against the wall every week, banananas/socks and filth. This is our Universe"...

Science cant even ponder what the fuck is beyond the event horizon of a Black Hole in the distant Universe yet they'd lead you to believe they know for a fucking fact that there is no God. Fucking Please... No one has any idea or proof for or against this idea.


A mere man trying to ponder a God for fucks sakes (If it exists) LMMFAO...

Its like expecting nats around an anthole in Florida at NASA to understand the inner workings of the Space Shuttle....


Grow a brain people... For or against.

[eyeknow]

holy crap, this thing is still going on.

Look, it's all very nice to see so many passionate people with some very good information.....but......if there is one thing you can put in the bank and collect interest on it's that WE DON'T KNOW SHIT!!!!!!!!!

Not a putdown at all, it's just that the universe, science and such are so much more complicated than we can comprehend at this point in time.

For cryin' out loud, a few short years ago "string theory" was the IN thing...and even THAT has been shot to hell in most ways.......although

-There are more dimentions than we can concieve (fact, though we'll probably be dead once it's proved..........maybe then not fact ?)
-There are so many secrets in the universe we (any incarnation of man) will never really understand.
-How the fuck is it that marlboros show up with the battlestar galactica fleet? I mean wtf? How did that damn company get product that far out? And THEN, the commercials are for STOP SMOKING......ugggg........talk about have your cake and eat it!

Its like watching dumb ants in an antfarm argue about the sand thier walking on...

Like a bunch of cockroaches exclaiming "We live in Garbagecans and these Gabagecans are the end of the Universe, we can proove this over and over to you by watching the garbage cans fly against the wall every week, banananas/socks and filth. This is our Universe"...

Science cant even ponder what the fuck is beyond the event horizon of a Black Hole in the distant Universe yet they'd lead you to believe they know for a fucking fact that there is no God. Fucking Please... No one has any idea or proof for or against this idea.


A mere man trying to ponder a God for fucks sakes (If it exists) LMMFAO...

Its like expecting nats around an anthole in Florida at NASA to understand the inner workings of the Space Shuttle....


Grow a brain people... For or against.

well said!

[JACKAL & HYDE]

holy crap, this thing is still going on.

Look, it's all very nice to see so many passionate people with some very good information.....but......if there is one thing you can put in the bank and collect interest on it's that WE DON'T KNOW SHIT!!!!!!!!!

Not a putdown at all, it's just that the universe, science and such are so much more complicated than we can comprehend at this point in time.

For cryin' out loud, a few short years ago "string theory" was the IN thing...and even THAT has been shot to hell in most ways.......although

-There are more dimentions than we can concieve (fact, though we'll probably be dead once it's proved..........maybe then not fact ?)
-There are so many secrets in the universe we (any incarnation of man) will never really understand.
-How the fuck is it that marlboros show up with the battlestar galactica fleet? I mean wtf? How did that damn company get product that far out? And THEN, the commercials are for STOP SMOKING......ugggg........talk about have your cake and eat it!

Its like watching dumb ants in an antfarm argue about the sand thier walking on...

Like a bunch of cockroaches exclaiming "We live in Garbagecans and these Gabagecans are the end of the Universe, we can proove this over and over to you by watching the garbage cans fly against the wall every week, banananas/socks and filth. This is our Universe"...

Science cant even ponder what the fuck is beyond the event horizon of a Black Hole in the distant Universe yet they'd lead you to believe they know for a fucking fact that there is no God. Fucking Please... No one has any idea or proof for or against this idea.


A mere man trying to ponder a God for fucks sakes (If it exists) LMMFAO...

Its like expecting nats around an anthole in Florida at NASA to understand the inner workings of the Space Shuttle....


Grow a brain people... For or against.

well said!

Nothing makes me laugh harder than idiots trying to ponder a God. ala "Well why isnt it like this!!!"

Cheetos on their face while playing "Half Life & Oblivion" on Xbox and they think they can figure out a God for fucks sakes.... The blunt arrogance and stupidity/thoughtlessness is staggering in modern times. "Modern times" of course meaning that they have a cell phone and cable, that of course means theres no God among other things. But whether theres a God or not, the hypothesis around here is for shit.

[eyeknow]

Its like watching dumb ants in an antfarm argue about the sand thier walking on...

Like a bunch of cockroaches exclaiming "We live in Garbagecans and these Gabagecans are the end of the Universe, we can proove this over and over to you by watching the garbage cans fly against the wall every week, banananas/socks and filth. This is our Universe"...

Science cant even ponder what the fuck is beyond the event horizon of a Black Hole in the distant Universe yet they'd lead you to believe they know for a fucking fact that there is no God. Fucking Please... No one has any idea or proof for or against this idea.


A mere man trying to ponder a God for fucks sakes (If it exists) LMMFAO...

Its like expecting nats around an anthole in Florida at NASA to understand the inner workings of the Space Shuttle....


Grow a brain people... For or against.

well said!

Nothing makes me laugh harder than idiots trying to ponder a God. ala "Well why isnt it like this!!!"

Cheetos on their face while playing "Half Life & Oblivion" on Xbox and they think they can figure out a God for fucks sakes.... The blunt arrogance and stupidity/thoughtlessness is staggering in modern times. "Modern times" of course meaning that they have a cell phone and cable, that of course means theres no God among other things.

I don't chime in much anymore, but I will be looking forward to your blunt and "tough crap if you don't like the messanger" posts....even IF we dissagree!

[BoimB son of BoB]

Like I said earlier, I never bought the theory that the entirety of the universe fit into a smaller area then exploded as a singularity. This didn't make sense to me at 12 years old, and doesn't now. Simple question, at the end of the universe, what lies beyond? The most obvious answer is another universe, ad infinitum........
To me, god is a construct of our finiteness in an infinite universe, and so is the single bang theory. No pun intended!

But to clarify, to me, it's not possible to prove that god doesn't exist, just as it's not possible to prove god does. The question being why waste time and effort trying to prove that your sacred text is the word of god when you cannot? and why let the prejudices of that text define the political and scholastic climate of our time? especially when plenty of it's doctrine is willingly ignored out of practicality.

i do not agree, big bang is te most probable event to explain bckground radiation. the idea of the universe being the result of an expansion of a singulaity is an elegant one and the most probable. were i do absolutely NOT agree is the fact that this event must be seen as 'an act of a creator'. there is absolutely no evidence or even hinting that a CREATOR is needed to produce the big bang..

Yea no "evidence" with conviction ya fucking idiot... So Einstein, what was here before the fuckin "Big Bang" genius? ? ? You don't know, but you feel good about yourself with a shoulder shrug and a "Fuckn God doesnt exist"? You see the God Damned "back Ground radiation pictures from NASA" and throw it off as what? Nothing? I think if Jesus came down into your bedroom and gave you head you'd still not believe there was a God ya fuckin dumbass.
NASA/M.I.T and JPL are all wrong about the "Big Bang" and your fckn ass is right? Pffft... ? <insert the biggest lol in the Universe here> Night

for me a reaction like hat proves i hit the nail on your toes very hard

i'm in fact so spot on, your only defence is to get mad... wuhahahaha. that is looser talk. it sounds like someone who cannot accept defeat, like a 5 year old boy.

with all do respect but iwonder who of ous 2 is the idiot here.

go watch stargate SG1 and praise your god.

if jesus would stand in my room telling he's the son of god i give him a and call the cops. oooooooo maybe jesus will turn me into a rabbit with his GOD magic.



the biggest dumbest idiot is actually you. brainwashed mindslave. go praise allah for me will you.

[BoimB son of BoB]

as to what there was before the big bang. who cares. certainly no god dude walking around.

use your imagination i can come up with a few nice ideas that are no less or more 'provable' than your GOD hypothesis.

i'd rather believe in super aliens that created our universe. aliens meaning they themselves being the result of a gradual process of natural selection.

my system is way more powerfull than your god. your god is weak.

if i speak of god i dear spek of god as the universe and even beyond that. god for me isn't a concious force or something with a will or guided ordering powers.

the god i speak of is nothing compared wirth your lunatic mindtwist that dominated men thousands of years.

we have alteratives now that more elegantly describe nature as it is as close to the truth as possible. god thinking is useless and a waste of precious time. god hypothesis won't help cure cancer, science will. why? because it lets people search for the TRUTH with a simple set pf rules guidelines. the results of just 200 yers western science are way more mindboggling than fucking 4000 year old god praising rituals that have ZERO purpose. or at most a placebo effect.

thank you, idiot

[shtreimel]

holy crap, this thing is still going on.

Look, it's all very nice to see so many passionate people with some very good information.....but......if there is one thing you can put in the bank and collect interest on it's that WE DON'T KNOW SHIT!!!!!!!!!

Not a putdown at all, it's just that the universe, science and such are so much more complicated than we can comprehend at this point in time.

For cryin' out loud, a few short years ago "string theory" was the IN thing...and even THAT has been shot to hell in most ways.......although

-There are more dimentions than we can concieve (fact, though we'll probably be dead once it's proved..........maybe then not fact ?)
-There are so many secrets in the universe we (any incarnation of man) will never really understand.
-How the fuck is it that marlboros show up with the battlestar galactica fleet? I mean wtf? How did that damn company get product that far out? And THEN, the commercials are for STOP SMOKING......ugggg........talk about have your cake and eat it!

Its like watching dumb ants in an antfarm argue about the sand thier walking on...

Like a bunch of cockroaches exclaiming "We live in Garbagecans and these Gabagecans are the end of the Universe, we can proove this over and over to you by watching the garbage cans fly against the wall every week, banananas/socks and filth. This is our Universe"...

Science cant even ponder what the fuck is beyond the event horizon of a Black Hole in the distant Universe yet they'd lead you to believe they know for a fucking fact that there is no God. Fucking Please... No one has any idea or proof for or against this idea.


A mere man trying to ponder a God for fucks sakes (If it exists) LMMFAO...

Its like expecting nats around an anthole in Florida at NASA to understand the inner workings of the Space Shuttle....


Grow a brain people... For or against.

well said!

Yeah...yeah....very nice.

[shtreimel]

my system is way more powerfull than your god. your god is weak.

thank you, idiot

http://www.aish.com/spirituality/philos ... heists.asp