Ableton Forum

So now when people ask if Live can do this or that, instead of people responding, "You need M4L" or "ClyphX" they will say, "You need "bitwig." AND over at the bitwig forum, vice versa.

OR people coming to the Ableton forums asking how to do things in bitwig?

It's gonna get ugly over here fer sure.

daviec75 wrote: 90%+ of Live's user base sound like they're ready to switch,

90% of this forum is more like 5% of the user base.

NEVER base a poll off an internet forum.

When BW setup in 2009 they said this: "Within the virtual environment of a computer anything is possible, yet on a fundamental level, the way music is created today with computers is still very similar to how hardware studios were used. With an entirely new approach, we want to take the next step in the evolution of the computer music studio and create the music software we always wanted to use ourselves."

If what we've seen today is their vision - 3 years on - of an entirely new approach (granted this is only version 1), then I'm still more excited to see what the genuine innovators at Ableton come up with next, rather than how BW turns out.

That's a good point, and I'm not expecting this BW release to be straight up competition, more like v2 or 3, depending on their roadmap. That earlier statement of theirs does lead one to believe that they were bringing a new paradigm. From their old pic I was thinking it was a hybrid modular/Live thing, and well, it looks like it is.

Fuck I forgot about Clyphx /paces in circles /eyes twitch

I wouldn't read too much into the volume of pro-Bitwig/anti-Live sentiment in this thread. It's gear lust. Nothing new on the internet. We'll see how this plays out once Bitwig Studio is available, Live 9 is (hopefully) announced/released, and the chips will fall where they may.

Beyond that, everyone's entitled to their opinion etc. etc. however:

I don't need paradigm shifts, or completely unique UI metaphors. I don't really give a shit about what's a copy or what's stolen; that's the German judiciary's business. I need something that works, and in the event of a switch represents a meaningful improvement over what I'm already using.

32 bit Live doesn't always work for me. I live in the future, computers here are fucking awesome. I need to be able to load up a few VST plugins without my computer taking a shit. There are lots of 64 bit DAWs available to me, but none of them can be used like I use Live.

It appears that Bitwig Studio could be the solution. Of course it might not be any good, or it may have flaws or limitations even more annoying than those I've experienced with Live.

But I'm interested.

(And come on, how can you not think those network collaboration features look awesome?)

kb420 wrote:

shadx312 wrote:I think it would be cool if it could also be a vst and you could use it in Live, like EnergyXt or FL, but I doubt that's going to happen.

It might end up being a Rewire slave and host eventually. Live is a Rewire slave and host.

Yeah but it sucks as a slave

Really happy with the new toy... looks promising, and despite what some people say, I think it looks also aesthetically nice...

Competition is good, but what I'm really waiting for is the next "new topic" in this forum:

BITWIG STUDIO AUDIO ENGINE QUALITY!

Call me as soon as it begins... grabbing pop-corn and ice-cream for everyone!!!

^ you lurker you...

Logic sounds way better than bitwig, dont you know.

Well I for one like how they put the arrange view headers/mixer on the left rather than the right, and the browser on the right side. Not even kidding. I fuckin like it.

Did you guys notice the little wrench icons on the devices?

Lack of group tracks at 1.0 will be a bit of a fail. Of course we don't know if they are there but I feel like that particular thing would have been shown in a picture out of all the screenshots and vid clips available now. I also think if there was some kind of generic rack device, they would have shown that. Those alone would keep me with Live if they are not included, no matter what the rest of the program is like. We shall see.

nathannn wrote:

headquest wrote:

William wrote:Wow this is just Live with the features everyone's been asking for lol

...but with a heck of a lot of features from Live are missing here, let's be honest

Live 8 is a mature product, with plenty of third party support and a huge international user base ranging from bedroom musos to international superstars....

Bitwig does look like an upstart challenger that has a few nice tricks, but a huge amount of ground to catch up, and not a lot here that's really so innovative....

how can you tell anything is missing from screen shots?

Well for one thing, check out the close up image of the instruments and effects - all the basics are there, but there's a lot of stuff in Live's device browser I would instantly miss.

It'a basically like when I write a job reference for somebody - the stuff I DON'T say is just as important as the stuff I DO say. And Bitwig have a lot of positives that they DO say. But you need to think about the stuff that they DON'T say:

+ Video support
+ Rewire support
+ AU support
+ MIDI effects
+ Groove quantise/extraction
+ Unlimited audio/MIDI tracks, instruments and effects
+ More than 3 aux send slots
+ "Gapless audio" engine on the fly
+ Launch Modes
+ Freeze
+ Automatic plugin delay compensation, and track delay settings
+ Cross fades
+ Per track export
+ External instrument/effect use
+ Awesome library for the instruments, including loads of third party content (commercial and free)
+ flexible routing between tracks

I could go on, because this is really just scratching the surface.

My guess is that SOME, but NOT MANY of these features are included. A lot of this stuff WOULD be listed if it was there.

Just saying. Hats off to Bitwig for a great looking v1.0 and some interesting stuff on the horizon. But this is NOT about to seriously challenge Live 9 Suite imho.

does all the bitwig instruments and effects have edit button

just curious, since they are releasing a some modular synth builder kit later on that says you can modify existing devices. i guess that is the case then
I hope the max and Live applications get much more build into each other at Live 9, that Live 9 will have a special version of Max where they really melt into each other. Like have the same preferences window and you can just drag a max object into Live

glitchrock-buddha wrote:I also think if there was some kind of generic rack device, they would have shown that.

Assuming the following:

Bitwig.com wrote:Device nesting
Devices can contain other devices, and the whole package can be saved as a preset. Many of our instruments and effects use nesting in new and powerful ways.

How do you feel your needs won't be met?

Well I for one like how they put the arrange view headers/mixer on the left rather than the right, and the browser on the right side. Not even kidding. I fuckin like it.

Well they better make the interface modular so we can set it up how we want ie Adobe CS or Sonar Skylight(?). I'm hoping that's a no-brainer.

Oh yeah and have it run on the iPad

glitchrock-buddha wrote:Well I for one like how they put the arrange view headers/mixer on the left rather than the right, and the browser on the right side. Not even kidding. I fuckin like it.

I don't mind Live's layout personally, but i couldn't get my production partner to switch from Logic to Ableton no matter how hard i tried, and this was his number one gripe. I couldn't fathom it, but he would break out in figurative hives at the mere thought of the headers on the right. So you aren't the only one

Why EVERY DAW isn't modular in simple ways like this is beyond me.