Ableton Forum

I'm just glad I don't own it.

beats me wrote:Apple’s first order of business should be overhauling the horrid tiny parameter UI on their legacy sound modules. It’s unbelievable they didn’t do that from 9 to X.

Yeah, I was very surprised they didn't revamp the GUIs of all the old Emagic plugs. They look so ugly next to some of the newer modules.

stringtapper wrote:

beats me wrote:Apple’s first order of business should be overhauling the horrid tiny parameter UI on their legacy sound modules. It’s unbelievable they didn’t do that from 9 to X.

Yeah, I was very surprised they didn't revamp the GUIs of all the old Emagic plugs. They look so ugly next to some of the newer modules.

For a quick temp band-aid fix they could at least let you increase the window size with the elements becoming larger with it, especially considering Apple is obsessed with full screen everything right now.

c33 wrote:Soniccouture tweeted about it and said "they smell apples"

Who knows.. but I think it's pretty shitty they couldn't offer more notice or some kind of explanation beyond "Oh hey we're closed now and will offer you some support for our products for few more months." *sigh* I know there are lot of people out there who are pretty invested in Alchemy.

Can you imagine if Ableton pulled something like this?

This happens every single time a company is bought by a company that also sells the same products as said company.
It's nothing new, they sign no compete contracts, and have to close shop, and you cannot tell your customers that you're doing this before for fear of losing business and not selling the business... Afterwards you're subject to strict rules on what you can say which also makes sense.

The end user gets slightly hosed, but that's nothing new in the DAW/VST world. I'm just glad it seems that they're going to be working with a good team for audio work, the old Emagic Logic crew and Redmatica guy! It's very much looking like Apple is going to come out with a Kontact killer. Hopefully not just for Logic.

If you wonder why I think that, everything Redmatica did was for the EXS24 until he started doing it for Kontact and a few other samplers too. All tools for creating and maintaing a sampler library at optimum performance! Couple that with Alchmy's sample mangling and the Logic team and!

mholloway wrote:the guessing is silly... sure, maybe they got bought out, but random speculation that it's Apple or anybody else is pretty absurd right now, we don't know anything, let alone if it really was a buyout. They may have simply gone under due to lack of sales.

stringtapper wrote:There were already rumors about Ben having had talks with Apple about a buyout.

c33 wrote:Soniccouture tweeted about it and said "they smell apples"

Bow before my speculative abilities! NOW!

c33 wrote:Can you imagine if Ableton pulled something like this?

That would be a dream come true. May be not as a native device, since the interface might not be suitable. But as the first VST instrument from Ableton, with a special upgrade price for previous Alchemy users. Going to be a happy ending for everyone.

Had Alchemy on my radar, even though I did not anticipate getting it any time soon. Curious to see what becomes of it.

crystalmsc wrote:

c33 wrote:Can you imagine if Ableton pulled something like this?

That would be a dream come true. May be not as a native device, since the interface might not be suitable. But as the first VST instrument from Ableton, with a special upgrade price for previous Alchemy users. Going to be a happy ending for everyone.

a) I have no objection to a live/alchemy interaction. It would be great....but....

b) I don't see this as the case. I frankly feel that there are more evil thoughts at hand

c) I don't think that is what he meant. I think (maybe I'm wrong) that if ableton "pulled" something like this they would the scourge of the earth in an epic battle that would likely bring humanity to it's knees.

Perhaps it's my turn to get tomatoes and bricks thrown at for saying this but...I don't think Apple's acquisition of Logic (previously called Notator) made that software better. Logic is more of an example how an Apple acquisition is not *always* a good thing.

I did own Notator for years, ever since it began as a black and white Atari ST program. What was unique about the pre-acquisition version is, everything was intuitive on it out of the box, even advanced features like quantization based on selective logical criteria. Now? When you start using Logic, yeah, it has cute color icons schmicons, but see how long even something basic, like importing a MIDI clip or putting an effect plugin on a track takes to figure out. Welcome to manual city.

So Apple is still trying to win the DAW competition, then? With all due respect, I doubt their success. Perhaps if they bought Live. But then, as Logic's example shows, it's not a guarantee they wouldn't just hose another great DAW. Apple doesn't excel at *everything*.

Though there is a bunch of speculation that says "they are going apple" ... That part of the equation has not been established.

For one thing, I have a tough time believing that there is any other motive to apple buying them UNLESS their staff somehow "fits" into their scheme. Also, apple is WAY more interested in iphone apps than some synth software. How in the world does "alchemy/packs/etc" fit into this??

Now, I dont' have the clairvoyance to know one way or the other, but I'm not clear at this point to know one way or the other. Now, some people are far more connected to the "business" part and would know better. But "who" are they exactly at this point?

Maybe I'm just wrong, but I feel that they have handled it poorly. The only thing I can draw is that they went "under" to some degree.

eyeknow wrote:Also, apple is WAY more interested in iphone apps than some synth software. How in the world does "alchemy/packs/etc" fit into this??

Not at all singling you out, a lot of people make this mistake. Apple of course is very very interested in iPhone apps etc. but Apple is now the wealthiest software/hardware company in the world, and the second most valuable company in the world, only freaking Exxon beat them out.

They have plenty of money to spend on making sure audio related computer use keeps at the 50% + that it is today.

Just because say 50% of the research and development at Apple goes into iPhone related stuff, that still leaves a huge chunk of R&D for Logic etc.

mrdelurk wrote:Perhaps it's my turn to get tomatoes and bricks thrown at for saying this but...I don't think Apple's acquisition of Logic (previously called Notator) made that software better. Logic is more of an example how an Apple acquisition is not *always* a good thing.

I did own Notator for years, ever since it began as a black and white Atari ST program. What was unique about the pre-acquisition version is, everything was intuitive on it out of the box, even advanced features like quantization based on selective logical criteria. Now? When you start using Logic, yeah, it has cute color icons schmicons, but see how long even something basic, like importing a MIDI clip or putting an effect plugin on a track takes to figure out. Welcome to manual city.

So Apple is still trying to win the DAW competition, then? With all due respect, I doubt their success. Perhaps if they bought Live. But then, as Logic's example shows, it's not a guarantee they wouldn't just hose another great DAW. Apple doesn't excel at *everything*.

Although in the bigger picture I agree with you, (I liked Logic around version 4, right before Apple bought them, and up until version 6 when new things post Apple started happening to the DAW), the reason is slightly different. I don't think Logic was ever easy to figure out even 70% up front, but after time, you got this blisteringly fast DAW. With Apples acquisition, Logic started getting dumbed down, any change in the Arrange Page for instance HAD to be duplicated in the Mixer Page, which made ZERO sense when dealing with hidden tracks etc. This wasn't the only place where control was lifted and function was put into the hands of the most common possible outcome. Previously the whole thing seemed much more customizable.


All that said though, as an old school user I'm not satisfied with what works best for the masses as a whole, just what works for me. Mostly Logic gets huge accolades and is still considered one of the top DAWs to have functionality for. You see almost 100% compatibility in hardware controllers etc. They tout Logic, Live, Cubase and Pro Tools compatibility every time. Sonar, Reaper, Digital Performer, Reason, Samplitude etc. not so much. That points to Logic doing well.

Machinesworking, so here we are, two Ableton Live users debating whether Logic's best period was 10 or 20 years ago...

I've only been using Logic since version 7, but speaking solely to that span of its life I'd say it's better than it ever has been. As far as I can tell none of the core features have been dumbed down and yet it's easier than ever to use. Still has deep features like the score editor and the environment but great new things like flex time and pitch. And the price is almost absurd for what you get.

I feel sorry for the people who just bought it recently. Only 7 month update and it'll never be fixed when it has issue on newer OS.