Moderation of this forum

[stringtapper]

I'm somewhat wondering if forums in general are on their way out. None of the communities I frequent are as vibrant as they used to be.

Yeah, same here. Seems perhaps Facebook groups have started to take over the role of the online forum for many people.

[H20nly]

Subforum "Demo and other new users". "You who are new user of Ableton Live or is just testing the free demo can get help from the Ableton Community in this forum".

A targeted new user sub forum would serve these users better than the hot air of Music Audio Production as it is now. Moderators could be even more strict enforcing forum rules there too, to make sure newcomers get the best impression possible.
Which incidentally is one major reason to decide get out the bad eggs from these forums once and for all.

Also, in a newbie sub forum I do think Ableton should assign at least one employee to help assist users into experiencing the merits of Live as quickly and fully as possible within the limitations of forum support. Obviously the community would do their part too.

That seems really sensible.

disagree.

not strongly, but here's why...

what that suggestion is doing is giving someone a job... who signs the paycheck? Ableton.

sure they could ask someone to moderate it for free, but i think the post was written in the grain of having a quality job done.

in general though, i agree with having a landing spot for people still on the fence about purchasing the product and not alienating them along with the pathetic types who like to bomb forums all day because they're actually that miserable with their life.

[Stromkraft]

"New users" should not be seen as "bothering" Ableton but as an opportunity to welcome them as users and customers. Other companies work like this.

Which companies? I think most software and IT companies make sure their tech support is not swamped by people who don't read the manual and don't look at the bundled tutorials, which accounts for a fair amount of the newbie queries on this site.

That would be smaller perhaps more hungry companies. I was thinking also in general and not specifically about the music software business. No specific names comes to mind, but there are some very friendly developers out there. I don't think the ones I've encountered are overdoing support either. Just what it takes.

Even bigger companies like Ableton still should make some effort to make sure new users have good experiences. Of course Ableton already do this with giving some nice support for budding customers in their normal channels. They did to me, which I found an attractive quality.

In a forum like the one I was thinking about there would be stickies perhaps a little more geared towards newcomers and such typical problems including polite nudges to read the manual with links. The latter being a major mistake to not do properly that I made as a new user.
I know this exists already in various forms and places, but perhaps newcomers could benefit from a specifically focused section to speed up learning? There are a vast amount of great info in these forums and putting key points in one focused place, would be helpful I think.

The help section at ableton.com is indeed structured to be much of that , but it's more of a problem > solution kind of thing. A newcomer sub forum is more about understanding or the problem being the lack of it.

[Stromkraft]

That seems really sensible.

disagree.

not strongly, but here's why...

what that suggestion is doing is giving someone a job... who signs the paycheck? Ableton.

sure they could ask someone to moderate it for free, but i think the post was written in the grain of having a quality job done.

in general though, i agree with having a landing spot for people still on the fence about purchasing the product and not alienating them along with the pathetic types who like to bomb forums all day because they're actually that miserable with their life.

OK, but the idea here would be to turn demo users into customers simply by giving great service. And a presence doesn't have to be full time possibly as the community would help out too I'm sure. Anyway, I suppose Ableton already know where they stand on this, so all this is mere speculation on my part.

[H20nly]

yeah agreed. don't get me wrong... I'm not saying that there's no merit or anything so absolute as all that... just that maybe they're not willing to spend the resources.

back when we had David moderating, he used to be somewhat engaged. if he's moved on thats all fine and dandy, but there seems to have been no effort to replace him... or at least no one seems to be doing anything any more.

[Stromkraft]

yeah agreed. don't get me wrong... I'm not saying that there's no merit or anything so absolute as all that... just that maybe they're not willing to spend the resources.

back when we had David moderating, he used to be somewhat engaged. if he's moved on thats all fine and dandy, but there seems to have been no effort to replace him... or at least no one seems to be doing anything any more.

Yeah, it's a conflict of interest. We all want Ableton to develop great software and if they need to focus on core activities I can understand that. But I also these forums are an integral part of the Ableton experience for at least some users and it's not always a great experience even if it's pretty good overall. I do appreciate the sharing of knowledge and ideas. But I'd lose pointless discussions and spam any day.

I still think community moderators of some sorts with limited powers and those granted only after good service is a workable alternative. At least it's something. It's just a thought up for discussion really. Still in Ableton's hands no matter what.

[login]

I'm somewhat wondering if forums in general are on their way out. None of the communities I frequent are as vibrant as they used to be.

Yeah, same here. Seems perhaps Facebook groups have started to take over the role of the online forum for many people.

I am on some groups on FB and there is no comparision: forums are so much better. Knowledge is easy to find, community evolves better, community projects, more sharing, better help.

FB groups are a total mess, not engaing at all. But I suposse that for people who has never been to a forum they are OK.

And while many forums are dying I think that they still have something going for them and they wont disapear, ever.

[stringtapper]

Oh I prefer a forum too. Remember it wasn't long ago that email lists were the most common form of online discussion. Thank god that died!

(Although the Society for Music Theory is only just this month finally shutting down their email list and moving to a forum )

[Stromkraft]

Oh I prefer a forum too. Remember it wasn't long ago that email lists were the most common form of online discussion. Thank god that died!

That may be true within the music arena, but mailing lists are still very much alive within many other subjects.

[beats me]

FB groups are a total mess, not engaing at all. But I suposse that for people who has never been to a forum they are OK.

Another reason for me to hate Facebook, the mecca for the socially and intellectually lazy. I’m sure there are people who aren’t aware of what is going on out there if it isn’t mentioned on Facebook.

Whenever somebody informs me of something that is happening exclusively on Facebook it’s of absolute zero value.

[Stromkraft]

Whenever somebody informs me of something that is happening exclusively on Facebook it’s of absolute zero value.

I know how you feel, but as certain underground clubs and parties work solely via Facebook I must disagree. Of course it would be valuable with this info also outside of Facebook, but people are there.

[H20nly]

I still think community moderators of some sorts with limited powers and those granted only after good service is a workable alternative. At least it's something. It's just a thought up for discussion really. Still in Ableton's hands no matter what.

agreed, but i'd like to see the open enrollment feature brought under reigns more than i would like to see some asshat locking a thread down the moment someone says something borderline political or religious.

religion ffs. sorry to inform everyone between the 909 *tsk boom tsk boom* but it's a HUGE factor in music. i would say outside of EDM, but how many tracks are named for religious ideas or contain samples of them being recited, sung etc. inside of EDM?

anyway beyond that, this forum has always been cool to me because i can get good info relating to the music software that i love to use and also talk about other matters along the way. the relationships between users develop a community. knowing who some of the members of a community are can help me sort through their answers during meat and potatoes conversations. some users are just more knowledgeable on certain subjects. for example, if i have a MIDI question... i like to see what yur2die4 or S4racen have to say. if i have a Mac question i'm eager to see a reply from steko. i only know this because of the community... not the forum itself. the forum is merely the catalyst.

[stringtapper]

Oh I prefer a forum too. Remember it wasn't long ago that email lists were the most common form of online discussion. Thank god that died!

That may be true within the music arena, but mailing lists are still very much alive within many other subjects.

Oh I know. ARSC being one I'm still subscribed to (The Association for Recorded Sound Collections).

I'm just saying I generally hate them and am glad many of them have gone away.

[beats me]

Whenever somebody informs me of something that is happening exclusively on Facebook it’s of absolute zero value.

I know how you feel, but as certain underground clubs and parties work solely via Facebook I must disagree. Of course it would be valuable with this info also outside of Facebook, but people are there.

I’m somewhat making an exaggeration. I know we are dealing with a couple of realities.

1. A lot of people are on Facebook (although usage is dwindling).
2. Promotion demands a web presence and there’s no easier or lazier way to do that than do it all on Facebook where refer to 1.

[Stromkraft]

I'm just saying I generally hate them and am glad many of them have gone away.

Yeah, I wouldn't say I hate them but mailing lists are not as useful as they once were. Not for learning anyway. I still try to educate when I can outside of music (I'm not any music mailing lists), but it's tiresome with recurring questions that would be better answered in a FAQ, and are so, but the FAQ is ignored.

Pretty much like The Manual problem we have here. Man, what a dork I was not reading it page by page years ago. Like 90% of issues I've struggled with are answered there. The rest here usually, or from different support channels.

Maybe there should be a community FAQ? It seems to me some things are stuff everyone should understand early on. I dunno, just thinking out loud.