ot: leave robtronik alone

[kokre8]

ROBTRONIK LOVES WAR LIKE A CRACK WHORE LOVES HER CRACK

[hoffman2k]

so then, why isn't more being made of this by anyone else? Explain to me why that is the case. We certainly have a motivated democratic base that wants to cut down any and all support for the invasion of Iraq.

Not even Kerry has said anything about this... WHY?

Thanks,

rob.

You gotta hand me this.
What is the difference between kerry and bush?
Both silver-spooners. Both skulls and bones...

If you accept the fact that bush isn't actually calling the shots, you might look deeper into who really is.

Seriously, there's a whole library section about illuminati. And it's not under "science-fiction".

I'm 22, what do I know?
But i do read more then enough to make my own mind up....

Google "Bilderberg group". I literally live near these rich mofo's.
My house is a dump. You probably never even heard of "knokke-heist, Belgium"
But I do reguraly see some "famous" faces around here. I live next to the belgian equivalent of beverly hills....
I'm no stranger to people with the"uber-mentality".

[mike holiday]

You gotta hand me this.
What is the difference between kerry and bush?
Both silver-spooners. Both skulls and bones...

yup nothing but a dog and pony show here.. and i would suspect most of the globe as well..

our 2 party system is a joke

that part of how they get people to go along with their ideas..

its funny how much different the actual agenda is from the ideals these guy preach

[robtronik]

ROBTRONIK LOVES WAR LIKE A CRACK WHORE LOVES HER CRACK

I'm just quoting this so it can't be deleted by koo koo.

Buying Ableton Live over the years through upgrades: $400 or so.

Joining the Ableton Forum: $0 + bandwidth fees

Driving leftwing wackos insane: PRICELESS.

lol.

rob.

[hoffman2k]

There's the joke.
Right and left.
You guys need dolby

[forge]

he he...

KoKre8 - I really appreciate your passionate feelings on this because ultimately my thoughts on this are closer to yours on the matter, and the pictures of innocents suffering etc really disturb and enrage me too - but put it better and less abusively and people are more likely to hear it

I think Rob did a really good job of answering my question in a reasonable way there - there is actually some fairly sound rationale behind what he said there even though I disagree with it, you can <sort of> understand why people take that view, and I could argue with it in point form one by one and disagree with those points, but I've already stated my views on all of that on this forum many times by now, and only keep coming back because I feel like a rant, but saying the same things and arguing them with the same people - not very productive really

likewise I dont really feel I know enough about it really. i will always be against unneccessary wars, and would not justify it based on things like this one has been, but my feeling is not one of us here on this forum or in our social economic level really knows what's going on

at the end of the day I think What Hoffman2k and Mike Holiday just said is the truth of it - the excessively wealthy run the planet and they do what they want to do, whoever's president has little bearing and I am certain all of this has been very much on the agenda for a long time.

Maybe it's Illuminati, aliens - who the fuck knows, but probably just greedy Mr Burns types who play with money and peoples lives like it's a toy

[dj superflat]

i think you all give waaaaaaaaaaaay too much credit to the wealthy, powerful, gov't etc. aside from truly heinous, overt dictatorships -- and even there it's hard to keep people in line and really get things done, no matter how many people stalin or mao killed -- government's have far less control than we might suppose because, like all human institutions, governments are filled with humans. and humans are fairly inept, petty, selfinterested, lazy, etc. while it may be comforting to think there's some secret cabal running everything, it just doesn't square with about anything we know about people, and particularly doesn't square with the frankly astonishing openess in the US when compared to just about anywhere (they'd put you in jail throughout europe for what the times leaks every day, though now the US may get into that to). and if you've ever met people like bush or cheney, it's readily apparent they're people just like any other (waaaaaaaaaay imperfect, distracted by family and other concerns, with bad habit, strange hobbies, etc.), they just happen to have somewhat different values, do the math on some problems somewhat different. true monsters, by contrast, are fairly obvious about how vicious and crazy they are (idi amin and his ilk rarely bother to hide their depravity because they're so wack they just don't care what others think).

finally, for all you leftists out there, why do you think the death toll from leftists run amok is so much higher than from the right? hitler came out of the socialist party, mussolini the communist, fascism in many ways a product of communism, which is why the two systems operated so similarly. but even attributing hitlet to the right, the left clearly killed more (stalin, mao, pol). the right tends to produce garden variety pinochet types who disappear a couple hundred thousand. to slaughter millions, you generally need to look to the left (because you need dogmatic certainty you're right about everything, so that you can justify doing truly terrible things). which is why the left scares me more than the right, even though my sympathies lie with the left (because i'm proabortion, progaymarriage, proenvironment, etc.).

whew. too much info.

[kokre8]

by the way, the kook has a point -- obviously you can't just agree to disagree politely with evil like (e.g.) hitler, stalin, pol pot,......

Exactly.

[mike holiday]

ifinally, for all you leftists out there, why do you think the death toll from leftists run amok is so much higher than from the right? hitler came out of the socialist party, mussolini the communist, fascism in many ways a product of communism, which is why the two systems operated so similarly

dude if you think those guys are left of center your looking at the sphere bassackwards


the real leftist view is thaat held by the trees and the breeze

[forge]

ifinally, for all you leftists out there, why do you think the death toll from leftists run amok is so much higher than from the right? hitler came out of the socialist party, mussolini the communist, fascism in many ways a product of communism, which is why the two systems operated so similarly

dude if you think those guys are left of center your looking at the sphere bassackwards


the real leftist view is thaat held by the trees and the breeze

it drives me fucking crazy that the Climate in the States these days is one where everyone is always talking with this stupid left/right mentality

us or them, with us or against us blah fuckedy blah

Before this Bush administration the last time people used to talk in terms of left vs right was the cold war when there was still communism, and before that the early 20th C when there were fascists and communists across europe

it is very dangerously like newspeak IMO - polarise the people so they will go and fight in stupid wars they dont really believe in

[rtopia]

by the way, the kook has a point -- obviously you can't just agree to disagree politely with evil like (e.g.) hitler, stalin, pol pot,......

Exactly.

okay fine...

So let's get it right down to the bone:

"what is it that you hope to accomplish here?"

The best we can all hope for is that we at least "understand" why we think differently.

We're certainly not going to agree and we're certainly and "the more passionate we are" it's even less likely that our minds can be changed.

At worst - we're still not going to agree, but the whole discussion degenerates into a buncha name calling.

- r

[dj superflat]

i agree, think it's all a form of political theatre. that is, you've never seen anyone hear someone out and then say, you're right, now i'm opposed to abortion or whatever. at base, it's a form of entertainment or a way to rally the faithful. nothing wrong with that, but pretending it's really about the matters, winning hearts and minds, seems a bit silly.

and in response to whomever, i used the examples i did because i see the same sort of intolerance in the left today, the daily kos crowd essentially saying you're with us or against us, and if you're not with us you're evil. i think that way lies slaughter, as the history of most communist nations, most revolutions demonstrates. not that i think it's going to happen. it just raises my hackles (whatever hackles are). you need to dehumanize your opponent, really make him an "other" before you can kill him, treat him inhumanely, whether it's clan lynching in the south, tutsi and hutus in rwanda, or rob and some of the lefty component of the board. i'll grant that the terms left and right are not particularly precise (being based on where people sat in the french assembly makes them a bit outdated), but they're fairly efficient in many situations.

[forge]

i agree, think it's all a form of political theatre. that is, you've never seen anyone hear someone out and then say, you're right, now i'm opposed to abortion or whatever. at base, it's a form of entertainment or a way to rally the faithful. nothing wrong with that, but pretending it's really about the matters, winning hearts and minds, seems a bit silly.

and in response to whomever, i used the examples i did because i see the same sort of intolerance in the left today, the daily kos crowd essentially saying you're with us or against us, and if you're not with us you're evil. i think that way lies slaughter, as the history of most communist nations, most revolutions demonstrates. not that i think it's going to happen. it just raises my hackles (whatever hackles are). you need to dehumanize your opponent, really make him an "other" before you can kill him, treat him inhumanely, whether it's clan lynching in the south, tutsi and hutus in rwanda, or rob and some of the lefty component of the board. i'll grant that the terms left and right are not particularly precise (being based on where people sat in the french assembly makes them a bit outdated), but they're fairly efficient in many situations.

you're with us or against us

but that was bush

[glu]

Fucking right on forge.....

Bush did say, (with regret...)

You are either with us or against us.

That cannot be quoted enough


As for Rob, leave him the fuck alone. He's not that important. Start a thread about glu! Assholes....

[dj superflat]

re the bush comment: i recognize the far right is just as intolerant as the far left, but we don't have anyone on the board telling us we're all going to hell for fornicating or not believing in jesus; instead, we're told we're going to hell is we shop at walmart, drives SUVs, etc. i find this funny, because some people of the board seem fairly intolerant of (e.g.) rob even though the left preaches tolerance, yet the left extends its tolerance to even the most intolerant folk, like supporting islamic fascists who would stone girls who are raped, homosexuals, adulters, etc., and the left is somewhat like the christian right, in that you're consigned to lefty hell if you don't support the right enviro position, eat meat, don't believe in global warmy, etc. the irony makes my head spin, but most folk seem oblivious to it. put another way, i think pretty much everyone but moderates are silly (which makes me one of the herdlike middle), but i'm a fan of hayek, so what can you expect. cheers.