Richard Dawkins: The God Delusion.

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
bstalz
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Post by bstalz » Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:48 am

pilcrow wrote:hey.. I've been out most of the afternoon and evening. Good to see the page count flourishing. I don't have the energy right now to address any specifics. All I'll say at this point is WOW, some of you atheist dudes sure see religion (and life) in WAY more black & white terms than most religious people I know see things. We're talking some seriously myopic and unnuanced viewpoints. Not to mention intolerant.

Keep talkin'. Almost there.
I wouldn't tolerate it if the Live manual said there were 5 beats in every 4 beat measure. Is it intolerant to say something isn't right no matter how much someone wants us to at least accept it's right because they really need to believe it to be?

Religion and religious individuals have HAD to see the world in gray in order to keep religions alive. They either must become so amorphous so as to not be much of anything or they become brittle with age and insight.

Also, are you trying to argue the opposite of what many religious ppl would try to? That atheists see absolutes? That they can somehow form strong moral or ethical stances despite the lack of a scriptural source to pull from? If so, what are we? A or B?

cbit
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Post by cbit » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:09 am

There difference between a moderate and a fundamentalist is the measure of how much they doubt the literal truth of the bible. The moderate has incorporated a lot of doubt into his reading of the bible, i'm always curious to know why he doesn't 'finish the job off' and reject the whole book..
basementhum.blogspot.com. Adventures in computer music production.
Macbook 2 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo. 3GB RAM. OS X 10.5.8

NorthernMonkey
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Post by NorthernMonkey » Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:27 am

bstalz wrote:
pilcrow wrote:hey.. I've been out most of the afternoon and evening. Good to see the page count flourishing. I don't have the energy right now to address any specifics. All I'll say at this point is WOW, some of you atheist dudes sure see religion (and life) in WAY more black & white terms than most religious people I know see things. We're talking some seriously myopic and unnuanced viewpoints. Not to mention intolerant.

Keep talkin'. Almost there.
I wouldn't tolerate it if the Live manual said there were 5 beats in every 4 beat measure. Is it intolerant to say something isn't right no matter how much someone wants us to at least accept it's right because they really need to believe it to be?

Religion and religious individuals have HAD to see the world in gray in order to keep religions alive. They either must become so amorphous so as to not be much of anything or they become brittle with age and insight.

Also, are you trying to argue the opposite of what many religious ppl would try to? That atheists see absolutes? That they can somehow form strong moral or ethical stances despite the lack of a scriptural source to pull from? If so, what are we? A or B?
Amen to that brother.
..?

JACKAL & HYDE
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Post by JACKAL & HYDE » Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:35 am

We've got to keep this going to 100 pages... lol


So, (totally unbiased here) the Earth is naturally the exact right distance from the sun to create life in this solar system. And so, everything has been evolving naturally for millions of years including 3,000,000 different types of animals that have been here for the exact same time as us from the mammal to the pond creature.


But somehow, we humans are soley flying around in Space Shuttles and playing Xbox but the other 3 MILLION + animals are no where near comparison even though we've all been "evolving" at the same time together.



That, is a fucking miracle even by sciences most crucial standards. 1 in 3 million with 10 million years to "evolve together" yet nothing...

Talk about a "Miracle"... That in itself is the biggest one of all and its as real as a 4th grade science class.

cbit
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Post by cbit » Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:48 am

JACKAL & HYDE wrote:But somehow, we humans are soley flying around in Space Shuttles and playing Xbox but the other 3 MILLION + animals are no where near comparison even though we've all been "evolving" at the same time together.
Your post betrays the common misunderstanding that evolution always equals a progression towards humanness (ie. civilisation and technological advancement). That's simply not how it works.

Also you erroneously seem to cite mans technical achievements as evidence for some kind of divine 'helper' who's looking out for humankind. See how an equivalent argument looks when used by a hypothetical arachnid theist who considers the ability to spin webs a gift from god to spiderkind:
Spider Theist wrote:But somehow, we spiders are the only ones spinning webs. The other 3 MILLION + animals have nowhere near our web spinning abilities even though we've all been "evolving" at the same time together.
By your reasoning isn't this eight legged apologist equally justified in claiming that spiders are god's favourite animals?
Last edited by cbit on Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:16 pm, edited 4 times in total.
basementhum.blogspot.com. Adventures in computer music production.
Macbook 2 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo. 3GB RAM. OS X 10.5.8

NorthernMonkey
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Post by NorthernMonkey » Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:03 am

JACKAL & HYDE wrote:We've got to keep this going to 100 pages... lol


So, (totally unbiased here) the Earth is naturally the exact right distance from the sun to create life in this solar system. And so, everything has been evolving naturally for millions of years including 3,000,000 different types of animals that have been here for the exact same time as us from the mammal to the pond creature.


But somehow, we humans are soley flying around in Space Shuttles and playing Xbox but the other 3 MILLION + animals are no where near comparison even though we've all been "evolving" at the same time together.



That, is a fucking miracle even by sciences most crucial standards. 1 in 3 million with 10 million years to "evolve together" yet nothing...

Talk about a "Miracle"... That in itself is the biggest one of all and its as real as a 4th grade science class.
Why is that a miracle? Just because the odds are extremely remote, doesn't mean to say it won't happen. And by your own reckoning, we've had 10 fucking million years to get here.
..?

andydes
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Post by andydes » Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:27 pm

JACKAL & HYDE wrote:We've got to keep this going to 100 pages... lol


So, (totally unbiased here) the Earth is naturally the exact right distance from the sun to create life in this solar system. And so, everything has been evolving naturally for millions of years including 3,000,000 different types of animals that have been here for the exact same time as us from the mammal to the pond creature.


But somehow, we humans are soley flying around in Space Shuttles and playing Xbox but the other 3 MILLION + animals are no where near comparison even though we've all been "evolving" at the same time together.



That, is a fucking miracle even by sciences most crucial standards. 1 in 3 million with 10 million years to "evolve together" yet nothing...

Talk about a "Miracle"... That in itself is the biggest one of all and its as real as a 4th grade science class.
OK, consider what you need to make a complex society: intelligence, communication skills and the ability to make tools (notably fire). These things would be developed together, as there is evolutionary advantage to having a large brain unless you’re using it.

Insect anatomy simply doesn’t allow complex nervous systems. Marine life generally doesn’t have the limbs to make complex tools (fire is certainly out of the question). Dolphins, of course are very intelligent and social creatures, but they can’t form tools, so there is simply no advantage for them to evolve further mentally. Birds, of course need their fore limps for flying.

This basically leaves mammals. Solitary animals won’t have developed the communication necessary, hooved animals are out of it on the tool thing again. So we’re left with land based, pack animals with the necessary dexterity to create tools- Primates.

Now the theory is that Neanderthals weren’t our ancestors, but branched off further up the tree and evolved independently. They just lost out in the fight for resources to the more advanced humans (or whatever we were at the time). They may have been killed off by us deliberately, the jury is still out on that. If we weren’t here, it would probably be them in our place.

The point is, the conditions must be right for intelligent life to evolve. Why would Lions get smarter and smarter with each generation? All it needs to do is hunt down it’s pray. The strongest and fastest are the survivors. Some primates however developed the ability to manipulate their environment and the social skills needed to pass on this information on to it’s young. It’s those most apt at this that were successful. And it's from this point that real intelligence started to evolve.

Does this help? More importantly, are we nearly there yet?

Seyser Koze
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Post by Seyser Koze » Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:59 pm

Whoa nearly there guys! Must break the hundred.

I see, we're still arguing with the crazys to no avail.

Here is what your forward thinking religious brothers post up on the internet.

check these links and be afraid, be veryb afraid.

http://www.conservapedia.com

Utter anti-wiki lunacy. Remember these guys actually think they are right. And you religious types don't think these guys should actually have to justify their statements at all? Madness.

but you want real proof of the insanity that still exists and is taught to our children then check out this masterpiece of insanity.





http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs200 ... on_ark.asp




Oh yes. They were probably "teenagers"v or young dinosaurs...be very afraid atheist brethern this shit is being taught to kids, right now, as we speak.

The world is only 6000 years old, and dinosaurs lived along side man.

Please, why are these people allowed to have an opinion at all?

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:13 pm

As God’s written Word to us, we can trust it to tell the truth about the past
http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs200 ... on_ark.asp

LMFAO
Is there evidence that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, rather than mere stories and opinions of uninspired men?
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/bible.asp

of course there is!

the Bible has no errors, you Satanists!
5. The Lord Jesus Christ referred to the Creation of Adam and Eve as a real historical event, by quoting Genesis 1:27 and 2:24 in His teaching about divorce
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creatio ... enesis.asp

excellent stuff.

right I'm off to take my neighbors as slaves and will them to my children, then have sex with them. As God tells me to in Leviticus 19:20 and 25:45

Pitch Black
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Post by Pitch Black » Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:56 pm

GOD IS WAITING ON PAGE 100

NorthernMonkey
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Post by NorthernMonkey » Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:34 pm

That is a fucking classic. It will live forever in my new sig.

"The Bible is reliable in all areas, including its account of the Ark (and the worldwide catastrophic Flood). A Christian doesn’t have to have a blind faith to believe that there really was an Ark. What the Bible says about the Ark can even be measured and tested today."

Fucking priceless.
..?

Seyser Koze
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Post by Seyser Koze » Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:38 pm

Pitch Black wrote:GOD IS WAITING ON PAGE 100
YAY! Will he bring his ark for my dinosaurs? I hope so.

sqook
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Post by sqook » Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:39 pm

Just out of curiosity, what happens after page 100? Are you guys going to let this thing finally die?

Seyser Koze
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Post by Seyser Koze » Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:39 pm

NorthernMonkey wrote:
That is a fucking classic. It will live forever in my new sig.

"The Bible is reliable in all areas, including its account of the Ark (and the worldwide catastrophic Flood). A Christian doesn’t have to have a blind faith to believe that there really was an Ark. What the Bible says about the Ark can even be measured and tested today."

Fucking priceless.
LOL, the Ark was actually 4'6 wide by 7692 miles long. Should be easy to spot.

Seyser Koze
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Post by Seyser Koze » Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:41 pm

sqook wrote:Just out of curiosity, what happens after page 100? Are you guys going to let this thing finally die?
NEVER!

I don't come here for the Live chat, it's boring and pointless.

Live can do everything, we know that already. I have my Live routing set up through my new interface (I will post designs soon) so that it can route to headphones and to my interface at the same time as hoovering and doing the washing up.

I come here to rile the religious!

This thread will never die!

(unlike the dinosaurs)

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