the purchase of a new rig! what would you do?

[hacktheplanet]

I've owned both the M-Audio 410 and 1814. I experienced poor latency, poor sync, hanging MIDI notes, and weird driver issues. Not recommended.

Go MOTU. An 828 isn't that much more expensive than the 1814, and it's a hell of a lot better.

[adventurepants_]

Here's a pro Mac argument. No viruses. And no constant "are you sure?" pop-ups as a last ditch attempt to stop them. But I'm sure as we speak there is a small but determined group of Mac fanboy hating PC users programming a Mac only virus the likes of which the world has never seen. But it's no small testament that hackers sooner hacked the US military before aiming their sites on Macs....and we wait.

whatever dude. my choice of computer is pretty irrelevant to my life, i just get on with music. i just find this brand fetish pretty lame. enjoy your Mac, but why are you so insecure that you( as in not you personally, but a certain type of Mac partisan) have to spam every reasonable pc discussion with this bullshit?

its just an appliance, you dont meet many people telling you how much their new toaster changed their life.

[laird]

@laird - http://www.m-audio.ca/products/en_ca/Audiophile192.html says "64-bit driver support for Windows." this is windows vista 64, no? i guess this doesn't say how well they work.

FWIW, I think it still says "beta".
In all honesty, I haven't paid too much attention to the latest happenings with maudio drivers + vista. I'd look into reviews, though. If it comes down to saving yourself $50, one of the more reliable brands might be a better bet.

I don't use this particular one, but my presonus has been perfect
http://www.zzounds.com/item--PRSINSPIRE
if you ever plan on using a microphone or a guitar, having the preamps is nice, and the 192 doesn't have that.
And I know plenty of folks who like the similar edirol UA25.

[gjm]

My recommendations:

1. Asus motherboard with your firewire and usb built in, but not wireless networking (add this later)
2. Intel Q6600
3. 2 or 4gb of matched paired RAM
4. 2 SATA3 hard drives - Seagate is my choice - if you get 500gb or higher, make sure they have 32mb of cache and they MUST be 7200 rpm drives!!
5. Video card without fan if possible - you don't need a ton of graphics power, even to run vista, but then why would you run vista?!?!? I like Nvidia series 7 cards - can still get them without a fan - less heat, less noise, less energy required. Make sure you get 2 outputs - having a second monitor is awesome, and moniters are cheap these days. Keep in mind that two 19inch monitors will give you an effective resolution of 2560x1024, and will likely be cheaper than a 24 inch screen that gives you 1900x1200.
6. Get a USB wireless network card that you can just take out to disengage - I'm a big fan of turning networking completely off especially during recording sessions.
7. Huge fan of Antec Sonata cases - very quiet.
8. DVD burner - Sony makes good ones.

General principles - stay conservative with your OS and your components. No need to overclock - the CPU is fast enough. No need for additional fans - the stock CPU fan works great if you don't overclock, and the stock sonata fans are great for the case.

I've built all my desktops for the past 10 years, and my system now is rock solid.

This proved excellent advice when I was shopping for my desk top. I had a friend help me put the physical gear together while I looked on.

I went with PC because of cost. (I was up and running including 2x LCD's for $2k NZD, about $1200 USD)

I went with:
Asus P5Q Pro Mobo
Q6600
2 Gig Extreme RAM
NVIDIA GeForce 9400 GT graphics (overkill but awesome price point)
1 x Western Digital HD to spec's mentioned.(will get 2nd later)
Asus DVD burner
XP Pro SP3
2x 19" Samsung LCD's

The case was the only thing I couldn't match on my budget. I ended up with a no name brand that had been being used by my friend in his computer leasing company with good results.

Only thing I might have skimped on was the 350watt power supply.

I added an after market PCI Firewire card for my Alesis io/14 sound card (and disabled the onboard FW chip).

I also picked up two 19" LCD monitors 2nd hand. I can confirm that something in the combination of gear and Live 6LE produces heavy latency spikes in DPC Latency tool. These are however not present when using Reaper. The isuue is not a deal breaker with Live yet as I am only a very light user of Live and so there is no major consequence, yet.

The whole experience of putting a machine together and getting it set up for Audio was both frustrating, but very rewarding. It was frustrating from the perspective of finding information and help. I have no one locally to turn to so I relied on this Forum and Google. I have really appreciated the help received here, but it took a while. Its been very rewarding as I now have a set of tools, habits and information that I never had before, which enables me to help myself.

Now that I am up and running, there is very little maintenance and upkeep to be done. A lot of my problems were user error The major time waster is having to learn new software and hobby/home recording techniques.

[Hidden Driveways]

Go Mac and never go back

PCI till I die

If you're okay with hell, get a dell

If your name is Claudio, get M-Audio

[ewistrand]

Here's a pro Mac argument. No viruses. And no constant "are you sure?" pop-ups as a last ditch attempt to stop them.

Which is why Apple now recommends that Mac users run an antivirus, right?

http://www.securemac.com/

ew

[adventurepants_]

Here's a pro Mac argument. No viruses. And no constant "are you sure?" pop-ups as a last ditch attempt to stop them.

Which is why Apple now recommends that Mac users run an antivirus, right?

http://www.securemac.com/

ew

to be fair, thats not apple, thats a software company trying to pimp their antivirus product. there is still no real issue with viruses on macs, but it could change very quickly if the coders get interested.

that said theres no real issue with viruses on PC either unless you the kind of person who clicks OK to everything on your screen without reading it. i havent had a virus since about 2001.

[rapidix]

@gjm - thanks for the list. i'll have a start with this.

@laird - i will have to search for this driver beta testing. i saw it mentioned in another post. does m-audio have a support line to call? seems like a quick question to me.. and if i buy a computer what are the chances of it having firewire? and what's the latency?

@the_planet - again i have $2k for the whole rig and i won't be recording a lot of audio. your suggestion is $750. i appreciate the help, but that's too much for something i won't be using that often.

and i'm liking the pc/mac discussion. especially hidden driveways' approach. and i know viruses are a problem for pc, but i guess i'm interested to know how a mac will boost music production tools like live.

[h_double]

Another benefit of PCs is the price. I just spec'd out a really loaded PC (2.83Ghz quad core, 4GB DDR3 RAM, 2TB SATA storage, 22" monitor) and for everything except the audio interface it cost right around $1500. That same $1500 will just barely get your foot in the door of the Apple store; you could get a 2.66Ghz dual core iMac with 2GB, 320GB disk, and no case or expandability. You can forget about a Mac Pro for under $2500-3000 for even the most minimum configurations.

Macs are nice machines and have their advantages, but PCs run all the same apps (except Logic) perfectly well and personally I'd rather spend that extra money on a good audio interface, monitors, etc., things that WILL make an audible difference in my music.

[h_double]

Also rapidix you might want to look into some Presonus interfaces (like the Firebox), which are pretty affordable and a step up from M-Audio. (One problem with M-Audio is that they have practically non-existant Vista 64 support right now for any of their gear).

[gjm]

... personally I'd rather spend that extra money on a good audio interface, monitors, etc..

I don't know how much gear you already have, but things other than your comp soon add up. Apart from your sound card, things to consider in your budget are

-monitors and isolation pads
-headphones
-mic's and stands
-cables
-amps
-back up hard drives (consider external for removal and storage)
-control surfaces
-additional software instruments etc
-possible room acoustic treatment
-a decent desk to work at
-your internet set up

and anything else that is particular to the music you want to make. Make sure you are as realistic as you can about the 'add on' gear you will need apart from your comp and sound card.

[beats me]

I was going to add more to the pro Mac side of things but after many retypes I determined it's near impossible to not come off like a prick. PC users will type out long laundry lists of specs and pieces parts and Mac people will type out the short list of why they feel Mac is superior which leaves a few blank bullet points to make asshole statements, as fun as that is.

Buy what works for you at your price range. There's plenty of people out there from either camp that can help you with any issues that might arise.

[gjm]

... PC users will type out long laundry lists of specs and pieces parts...

he,he....the downside of more choice

[kristoffer1989]

If your going desktop i would buy an imac and a nice little firewire soundcard. And if you do go the pc way i would still go firewire. No doubt. Get one with at least 4 stereo out. Then if you later get a laptop to perform with you could have(or feed a drummer with) a metronome ine headphone out. I am wery satisfied with my presonus firebox. Not to mutch cash either.

Good luck anyways... Kristoffer

[ollyb303]

I was going to add more to the pro Mac side of things but after many retypes I determined it's near impossible to not come off like a prick. PC users will type out long laundry lists of specs and pieces parts and Mac people will type out the short list of why they feel Mac is superior which leaves a few blank bullet points to make asshole statements, as fun as that is.

Buy what works for you at your price range. There's plenty of people out there from either camp that can help you with any issues that might arise.

Well said mate!

I get so bored of reading someone asking for help, mentions PC, the Mac crowd jump in with their elitist views, the PC crowd jump in with their 3l33tist views. Some of us use Macs. Some of us use PCs. The aim here is surely to make music, which is quite possible with either machine.

I've got a nokia phone which is very good, my wife loves her motorola. Number of times we've ever bitched about it? Zero.