Ableton Forum

stringtapper -- thanks for this. I surely hope they open it up with some sort of maxforlive runtime.


UPD: more from Jeremy --

"OK, here's the "definitive answer":

Users cannot use Max Devices without installing Max, obviously. Once Max is installed, they can use them, but they have to put Live into demo mode, if they don't own Max for Live.

So maybe this is not exactly what you were hoping for, but you can probably understand why it is going to work this way."

hmmm....

And one more:

"Think of it this way. Max for Live is a) a full install of Max + b) a full install of Live + c) the "bridge" code so that a) knows how to talk to b). You will always need Live for this to work (Max for Live is a _Live_ addon). You don't need to own MaxMSP to use/edit in Max for Live (although it needs to be installed for its built-in objects, shared libraries, etc.) -- in this case the Editor, with no audio/midi capabilities of its own, is used for all editing, and editing can only happen within a Live context. If you own MaxMSP, as well, you can use the normal MaxMSP app as your editor, and will be able to use MaxMSP as normal for non-Live editing, audio and MIDI communication, etc.

Does that make sense?"

stringtapper wrote:Here's some more info from Jeremy over at Cycling (the guy shaking hands in the video)

By all means feel free to poke and pry. I'll do my best to provide reasonable answers to questions over here, as well.

jb

jeremydb wrote:

stringtapper wrote:Here's some more info from Jeremy over at Cycling (the guy shaking hands in the video)

By all means feel free to poke and pry. I'll do my best to provide reasonable answers to questions over here, as well.

jb

and now we are in stereo!

so, maybe I am being a little dense, but from that discussion I still couldn't quite get a definitive answer to the question:

will there be a separate MaxForLive runtime, which will allow using but not editing Live devices created with maxforlive?

Something I'm wondering: Every time you open an effect or instrument made by MaxforLive, does it then open MaxforLive as a separate application, like with MAx/Msp runtime, or is unseen, behind the scenes or integrated right into program?

a) Does Max5 still have that copy protection, what'sitsface... PACE?

b) If yes, does Max For Live use it as well?

ilia wrote:

jeremydb wrote:

stringtapper wrote:Here's some more info from Jeremy over at Cycling (the guy shaking hands in the video)

By all means feel free to poke and pry. I'll do my best to provide reasonable answers to questions over here, as well.

jb

and now we are in stereo!

so, maybe I am being a little dense, but from that discussion I still couldn't quite get a definitive answer to the question:

will there be a separate MaxForLive runtime, which will allow using but not editing Live devices created with maxforlive?

This is not part of our initial plans. As I mentioned on the Max forum, Live users who do not own Max for Live will be able to use, but not edit, Max Devices, if Live is in test/demo mode (just like you can use Operator or Sampler in this mode, but not save, etc.). But the product is really symbolized by the Edit Button, and version 1 is targeted at users who want to engage with what lies beyond it.

jb

glitchrock-buddha wrote:Something I'm wondering: Every time you open an effect or instrument made by MaxforLive, does it then open MaxforLive as a separate application, like with MAx/Msp runtime, or is unseen, behind the scenes or integrated right into program?

If you are simply using the Device, the Device interface lives where your other Live devices for the track live, completely integrated into Live -- you can't tell the difference between a Max Device and a built-in Device in that respect.

For editing, Live opens a separate app, the Max Editor, to do the dirty work. You'll be pleasantly surprised by how fluid the workflow is.

jb

noisetonepause wrote:a) Does Max5 still have that copy protection, what'sitsface... PACE?

b) If yes, does Max For Live use it as well?

Max 5 uses PACE for copy protection. Max for Live uses Live's copy protection. If you purchase MaxMSP, MaxMSP will be PACE-protected. If you only have Live + Max for Live, you'll never have to deal with PACE (although to be honest, PACE is one of the most transparent CP experiences I deal with on any regular basis).

jb

I hope that the price will be reasonable, if it is I think there are going to be a boatload of new Max users!

jeremydb wrote:

ilia wrote:

jeremydb wrote: By all means feel free to poke and pry. I'll do my best to provide reasonable answers to questions over here, as well.

jb

and now we are in stereo!

so, maybe I am being a little dense, but from that discussion I still couldn't quite get a definitive answer to the question:

will there be a separate MaxForLive runtime, which will allow using but not editing Live devices created with maxforlive?

This is not part of our initial plans. As I mentioned on the Max forum, Live users who do not own Max for Live will be able to use, but not edit, Max Devices, if Live is in test/demo mode (just like you can use Operator or Sampler in this mode, but not save, etc.). But the product is really symbolized by the Edit Button, and version 1 is targeted at users who want to engage with what lies beyond it.

jb

i would not expect this runtime thing to be free, but much cheaper
than the full max for live - like reaktor session was...

It seems appropriate for it to function as read-only in Live Demo Mode

I would find it hard to believe that there could be a free runtime for use within Live in normal mode.

I suppose that would be within the Max business model but not in the Ableton one...

users will be 90% (whatever) of the market, so you can't just charge the 10% developers and rely on their generosity or individual entrepreneurships (which has nothing to do with Ableton OR Cycling $ anyway, at least directly) to make the thing work.

longjohns wrote: users will be 90% (whatever) of the market, so you can't just charge the 10% developers and rely on their generosity or individual entrepreneurships (which has nothing to do with Ableton $ anyway) to make the thing work.

but ableton (and others) could sell single max devices.
so everyone could buy the devices he needs/wants.

jeremydb wrote:

ilia wrote: will there be a separate MaxForLive runtime, which will allow using but not editing Live devices created with maxforlive?

This is not part of our initial plans. As I mentioned on the Max forum, Live users who do not own Max for Live will be able to use, but not edit, Max Devices, if Live is in test/demo mode (just like you can use Operator or Sampler in this mode, but not save, etc.). But the product is really symbolized by the Edit Button, and version 1 is targeted at users who want to engage with what lies beyond it.

jb

I understand how this would make sense from a MAX user/developer's viewpoint, but there is probably a large portion of Live users who have no time/desire/expertise to create or edit their own MAX patches, but who would be very interested in using Live devices made by others. Providing a separate pricepoint-of-entry for such users seems like a reasonable idea.

Coupe70 wrote:

longjohns wrote: users will be 90% (whatever) of the market, so you can't just charge the 10% developers and rely on their generosity or individual entrepreneurships (which has nothing to do with Ableton $ anyway) to make the thing work.

but ableton (and others) could sell single max devices.
so everyone could buy the devices he needs/wants.

I can assure you that someone has given this idea some thought.

jb