Ableton Forum

Low would be good because Max will get a ton of new users, Ableton will get some more Live users, and a lot of people will want it to just be able to run other people's patches... (OPP) though once you have it you might take a deep breath read the manual do the tutorial and start doodling your own.

Well MAX+MSP+Jitter bundle currently cost 699USD and if MFL is supposed to be the same thing...?

Cant imagin it being that much cheaper unless it has some serious feature reductions, and lets face it - the precedent for low priced plugins isnt exactly set by ableton now is it?

Khazul wrote:Well MAX+MSP+Jitter bundle currently cost 699USD and if MFL is supposed to be the same thing...?

The same thing minus some key things like standalone operation and the ability to create plugins (when Pluggo for Max 5 is finally released) or standalone applications. I would say it will be at most half the price of Max 5.

stringtapper wrote:Not gonna happen. It goes against the entire design philosophy of Max for it to be limited to one sequencing host. The fact that it will be an option is a great thing, but don't expect Max proper to go anywhere.

Yeah, I know its extremely unlikely but reading the article on the Cycling '74 website by David Zicarelli (link below) and a few other bits and pieces its obvious it is a far closer tie up than any other Ableton has had before (such as AAS).

I get the impression that Live has given Max the audio host and features that its been missing and that more will come of this over time. Maybe a cut down version of Live bundled with Max, or something like that.

Again as I pointed out before, there is a very good chance I'm just talking crap.

http://www.cycling74.com/story/2009/1/15/112631/799

jonny72 wrote:I get the impression that Live has given Max the audio host and features that its been missing and that more will come of this over time.

It's not really that Max is missing any features like this. It's just that it's an extremely complex task to code a full on sequencer in Max, but it can be done.

When people ask about making a sequencer in Max on the C74 forum, the answer is usually, "why reinvent the wheel?" If a sequencer already exists just use it and get on with creating some more interesting things with Max. That used to have to be done with ReWire. M4L changes all that.

It's gotta be free, considering the high price of the Live 8 upgrade.

Sibanger wrote:It's gotta be free, considering the high price of the Live 8 upgrade.

It won't. Remember you will get Max, which you have to buy seperately right now...

I don't think Jitter's going to be included in MFL as it is mainly for video stuff. Max/MSP goes for 500 USD on Cycling74's site. I'm sure MFL will not cost 500 USD, because it's basically a bundle (Max and Live). Since Cycling74 is tapping into a market segment that had very little interest in Max/MSP, they will definitely lower the price. Also, most Max/MSP sales are to students and institutions at half price anyway (for Max 5, you have to buy max, msp and jitter to get a discount).

Korhan wrote:I don't think Jitter's going to be included in MFL as it is mainly for video stuff. .

Jitter is included
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/01/1 ... urce-side/

Disagree. There were some comments (iirc from Robert) pointing towards using Max for video integration in Live.

edit: Disagree with Korhan, Angstrom is right.

Korhan wrote:I don't think Jitter's going to be included in MFL as it is mainly for video stuff.

It's already been confirmed that Jitter is included.

M4L is Max. As far as I can tell running in standalone, creating Pluggos, and creating standalones are the only significant differences

Korhan wrote:(for Max 5, you have to buy max, msp and jitter to get a discount).

Max doesn't exist without MSP and Jitter anymore (i.e you can't buy them separately at any price). This changed with Max 5.

stringtapper wrote:

Korhan wrote:(for Max 5, you have to buy max, msp and jitter to get a discount).

Max doesn't exist without MSP and Jitter anymore (i.e you can't buy them separately at any price). This changed with Max 5.

Well according to the Cycling '74 online shop you can buy Max on its on, Max/MSP together without Jitter, all of them together and Jitter if you've already got Max/MSP.

it DOES include jitter objects and capabilities as has been said many times before.

my guess is 200-250 if you dont already own max and 125-175 if you do already own max.

they have to account for the fact that a) not having a standalone version and pluggo export is a major disadvantage for mfl versus max proper, and b) lots of people with no interest in coding are going to want to buy just to have access to other people's creations. high price would def dissuade those people.

also, c) there are plenty of people who have already spent a lot of money over time on live and max, those people are going to be much more likely to buy mfl if the price is reasonable.

im still on the fence. once we get pluggo export for max5... improved workflow is only worth so much...

nbinder wrote:Disagree. There were some comments (iirc from Robert) pointing towards using Max for video integration in Live.

video in Live was cycling 74 technology from the start, or so I've been told.

Angstrom wrote:

Korhan wrote:I don't think Jitter's going to be included in MFL as it is mainly for video stuff. .

Jitter is included
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/01/1 ... urce-side/

***SPOOGE***

I haven't messed with jitter that much, but even the help files are pretty mind blowing with what you can do. unfortunately video uses a gazillion times more CPU than audio.

Sibanger wrote:It's gotta be free, considering the high price of the Live 8 upgrade.

Where did you see information on a Live 8 upgrade?

I'm actually still on 6, version 7 didn't seem to have enough features to warrant an upgrade... 8 is a *much* different story.

Cheers,

-ix