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Re: A few workflow tweaks for Live 8 (if not already done)
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:49 am
by j2j
Khazul wrote:These are just a few minor little changes I would like to see - all just little time savers really for bettter workflow and less distraction.
1. Be able to set a default track audio and instrument track level instead of the 0dB which (IMHO) promotes bad mixing habits - I'm allways pulling them down -12dB or so. be good if the default was fixed at something lower, or set in preferences (Ideally) so I didnt allways have to do this.
2. Be able to set the audio track default input to 'No Input' as a preference. 95% of my audio tracks dont need an input.
3. 'New group track' - same as new audio track, except sets input to none, level to a group track default and input mode to In.
4. When you save a track to the library and pull it back in again, it should try and reconect its outs to a track of the same name as was present when it was saved (if such a track exists). This applies to both audio, midi and instrument tracks. Is should also apply to hooking up external instrument and external fx devices. Currently its a bit pointless saving External instrument chains for synths as part of a track.
5. When chopping up audio in arrange view - please set default loop start and length to same as clip start and end (rather tham something apparently random), and perhaps even set the follow action length (but leave action as none?) to be whatever the clip length is set that when you copy it over to session view for creating DJ set from chopped audio - then you dont have to go and sort out loops lengths, follow lengths etc for each clip.
6. New from selected template - rather than just 1 default template, perhaps allow creation of a few of them that you can select the one you want. By all means keep the current behaviour as a default New.
All little things that would be nice time savers. OK - so I'm lazy and dont like any more clicks then are nescessary - does anyone?
All of these are far too user specific. I'm not that unique myself, and I completely disagree with all of them. Chances are, for every agreement, you'll find at least one who disagrees.
No reason to implement such drastic changes, on a 50/50 bet....
Cheers...
Re: A few workflow tweaks for Live 8 (if not already done)
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:20 am
by deva
j2j wrote:Khazul wrote:These are just a few minor little changes I would like to see - all just little time savers really for bettter workflow and less distraction.
1. Be able to set a default track audio and instrument track level instead of the 0dB which (IMHO) promotes bad mixing habits - I'm allways pulling them down -12dB or so. be good if the default was fixed at something lower, or set in preferences (Ideally) so I didnt allways have to do this.
2. Be able to set the audio track default input to 'No Input' as a preference. 95% of my audio tracks dont need an input.
3. 'New group track' - same as new audio track, except sets input to none, level to a group track default and input mode to In.
4. When you save a track to the library and pull it back in again, it should try and reconect its outs to a track of the same name as was present when it was saved (if such a track exists). This applies to both audio, midi and instrument tracks. Is should also apply to hooking up external instrument and external fx devices. Currently its a bit pointless saving External instrument chains for synths as part of a track.
5. When chopping up audio in arrange view - please set default loop start and length to same as clip start and end (rather tham something apparently random), and perhaps even set the follow action length (but leave action as none?) to be whatever the clip length is set that when you copy it over to session view for creating DJ set from chopped audio - then you dont have to go and sort out loops lengths, follow lengths etc for each clip.
6. New from selected template - rather than just 1 default template, perhaps allow creation of a few of them that you can select the one you want. By all means keep the current behaviour as a default New.
All little things that would be nice time savers. OK - so I'm lazy and dont like any more clicks then are nescessary - does anyone?
All of these are far too user specific. I'm not that unique myself, and I completely disagree with all of them. Chances are, for every agreement, you'll find at least one who disagrees.
No reason to implement such drastic changes, on a 50/50 bet....
Cheers...
THe point is not that a default track would be set to -12, but that the user can define what they want it set to.
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:29 am
by DJLethalRush
lol!! Yeah, #5 - random loop start and end points.... drives me crazy
Re: A few workflow tweaks for Live 8 (if not already done)
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:37 am
by j2j
deva wrote:
THe point is not that a default track would be set to -12, but that the user can define what they want it set to.
I know buddy.....
All I'm saying is, software is buggy enough as is. Every time they code a new feature, it has to go through alpha, then beta, then whatever bug reports get sent to support after release.........
I realize it is a work flow tweak... I realize its an option.
But I think it is completely stupid.
Cheers...
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:48 am
by leedsquietman
If you know what you're doing in terms of mixing, point #1 is redundant. Live 8 including a peak limiter will also help with this regard, but any semi-experienced person knows to watch levels and leave plenty of headroom and to avoid clipping.
It would be helpful for less experienced persons, otherwise I am always watching my levels like a hawk with it's eye on a field mouse. I am obsessive with levels, I even use Roger Nichols Inspector XL metering vsts on tracks with a lot of quick transients (i.e. drums in particular) as most DAW metering, including Live's is pretty basic.
Although I am in favour of the other suggestions, but only if they are easy to implement and won't cause delays or lead to other, worse bugs.
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:23 am
by bland_handl
CHARLIE! wrote:
bland_handl wrote:Hi Charlie, do you know you can right-click on the clip's end-marker, then select "loop current region" to make it loop correctly?
it means you have to split the section you want first, but it saves having to create new audio files as happens with consolidate.
The added benefit that all the regions you make can be saved to the browser as one track or one set, but references only one audio file.
Good results, but still a frustrating workflow no matter what method you use
I have to check this out. Can you do it for multiple clips at the same time?
Nope. Another bummer!
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:23 pm
by bendybones
bland_handl wrote:Hi Charlie, do you know you can right-click on the clip's end-marker, then select "loop current region" to make it loop correctly?
it means you have to split the section you want first, but it saves having to create new audio files as happens with consolidate.
The added benefit that all the regions you make can be saved to the browser as one track or one set, but references only one audio file.
Good results, but still a frustrating workflow no matter what method you use
You can also open envelope view highlight a portion of the clip and hit Ctrl/Cmd+L.
With the clip set to loop this will loop the selected region, else it will set the start and end points to 'book-end' your selection.
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:41 pm
by CHARLIE!
bland_handl wrote:CHARLIE! wrote:
bland_handl wrote:Hi Charlie, do you know you can right-click on the clip's end-marker, then select "loop current region" to make it loop correctly?
it means you have to split the section you want first, but it saves having to create new audio files as happens with consolidate.
The added benefit that all the regions you make can be saved to the browser as one track or one set, but references only one audio file.
Good results, but still a frustrating workflow no matter what method you use
I have to check this out. Can you do it for multiple clips at the same time?
Nope. Another bummer!
Multiple clips is what it is all about for me because I split my songs into sections and layers so I have a grid of like 50+ clips that I chopped up and I want to set them all to loop at the start end markers so that the chopped parts loop as they were cut... but alas it is not possible.
The best work around for me was consolidation even though it takes more space it saves me shit tons of time.
Re: A few workflow tweaks for Live 8 (if not already done)
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:47 pm
by Parametex
Khazul wrote:
1. Be able to set a default track audio and instrument track level instead of the 0dB which (IMHO) promotes bad mixing habits - I'm allways pulling them down -12dB or so. be good if the default was fixed at something lower, or set in preferences (Ideally) so I didnt allways have to do this.
2. Be able to set the audio track default input to 'No Input' as a preference. 95% of my audio tracks dont need an input.
3. 'New group track' - same as new audio track, except sets input to none, level to a group track default and input mode to In.
4. When you save a track to the library and pull it back in again, it should try and reconect its outs to a track of the same name as was present when it was saved (if such a track exists). This applies to both audio, midi and instrument tracks. Is should also apply to hooking up external instrument and external fx devices. Currently its a bit pointless saving External instrument chains for synths as part of a track.
5. When chopping up audio in arrange view - please set default loop start and length to same as clip start and end (rather tham something apparently random), and perhaps even set the follow action length (but leave action as none?) to be whatever the clip length is set that when you copy it over to session view for creating DJ set from chopped audio - then you dont have to go and sort out loops lengths, follow lengths etc for each clip.
6. New from selected template - rather than just 1 default template, perhaps allow creation of a few of them that you can select the one you want. By all means keep the current behaviour as a default New.
MAN YOU HIT THE NAIL IN THE HEAD WITH THESE ONES!
Very good list indeed!
I have been thinking the number 1, 2, 5 and 6 many many many times!
Please abes, minor details that give such a boost to optimizing the work!
Re: A few workflow tweaks for Live 8 (if not already done)
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:29 am
by Nightrider
Khazul wrote:These are just a few minor little changes I would like to see - all just little time savers really for bettter workflow and less distraction.
1. Be able to set a default track audio and instrument track level instead of the 0dB which (IMHO) promotes bad mixing habits - I'm allways pulling them down -12dB or so. be good if the default was fixed at something lower, or set in preferences (Ideally) so I didnt allways have to do this.
+ 1,000,000
this is really shitting me off and would be so easy to implement in Ableotn Preferances
Re: A few workflow tweaks for Live 8 (if not already done)
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:32 am
by Nightrider
j2j wrote:Khazul wrote:These are just a few minor little changes I would like to see - all just little time savers really for bettter workflow and less distraction.
1. Be able to set a default track audio and instrument track level instead of the 0dB which (IMHO) promotes bad mixing habits - I'm allways pulling them down -12dB or so. be good if the default was fixed at something lower, or set in preferences (Ideally) so I didnt allways have to do this.
2. Be able to set the audio track default input to 'No Input' as a preference. 95% of my audio tracks dont need an input.
3. 'New group track' - same as new audio track, except sets input to none, level to a group track default and input mode to In.
4. When you save a track to the library and pull it back in again, it should try and reconect its outs to a track of the same name as was present when it was saved (if such a track exists). This applies to both audio, midi and instrument tracks. Is should also apply to hooking up external instrument and external fx devices. Currently its a bit pointless saving External instrument chains for synths as part of a track.
5. When chopping up audio in arrange view - please set default loop start and length to same as clip start and end (rather tham something apparently random), and perhaps even set the follow action length (but leave action as none?) to be whatever the clip length is set that when you copy it over to session view for creating DJ set from chopped audio - then you dont have to go and sort out loops lengths, follow lengths etc for each clip.
6. New from selected template - rather than just 1 default template, perhaps allow creation of a few of them that you can select the one you want. By all means keep the current behaviour as a default New.
All little things that would be nice time savers. OK - so I'm lazy and dont like any more clicks then are nescessary - does anyone?
All of these are far too user specific. I'm not that unique myself, and I completely disagree with all of them. Chances are, for every agreement, you'll find at least one who disagrees.
No reason to implement such drastic changes, on a 50/50 bet....
Cheers...
I wouldn't say they're drastic changes... I'd say they're not even minor... and just enhance the workflow environment... who really wants to be working at 0db... I'm guessing the Abes answer is lets throw in a BRICK WALL LIMITER....
UUhummm... it completely destroys dynamics!!
Re: A few workflow tweaks for Live 8 (if not already done)
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:53 am
by j2j
Nightrider wrote:j2j wrote:Khazul wrote:These are just a few minor little changes I would like to see - all just little time savers really for bettter workflow and less distraction.
1. Be able to set a default track audio and instrument track level instead of the 0dB which (IMHO) promotes bad mixing habits - I'm allways pulling them down -12dB or so. be good if the default was fixed at something lower, or set in preferences (Ideally) so I didnt allways have to do this.
2. Be able to set the audio track default input to 'No Input' as a preference. 95% of my audio tracks dont need an input.
3. 'New group track' - same as new audio track, except sets input to none, level to a group track default and input mode to In.
4. When you save a track to the library and pull it back in again, it should try and reconect its outs to a track of the same name as was present when it was saved (if such a track exists). This applies to both audio, midi and instrument tracks. Is should also apply to hooking up external instrument and external fx devices. Currently its a bit pointless saving External instrument chains for synths as part of a track.
5. When chopping up audio in arrange view - please set default loop start and length to same as clip start and end (rather tham something apparently random), and perhaps even set the follow action length (but leave action as none?) to be whatever the clip length is set that when you copy it over to session view for creating DJ set from chopped audio - then you dont have to go and sort out loops lengths, follow lengths etc for each clip.
6. New from selected template - rather than just 1 default template, perhaps allow creation of a few of them that you can select the one you want. By all means keep the current behaviour as a default New.
All little things that would be nice time savers. OK - so I'm lazy and dont like any more clicks then are nescessary - does anyone?
All of these are far too user specific. I'm not that unique myself, and I completely disagree with all of them. Chances are, for every agreement, you'll find at least one who disagrees.
No reason to implement such drastic changes, on a 50/50 bet....
Cheers...
I wouldn't say they're drastic changes... I'd say they're not even minor... and just enhance the workflow environment... who really wants to be working at 0db... I'm guessing the Abes answer is lets throw in a BRICK WALL LIMITER....
UUhummm... it completely destroys dynamics!!
I think, you have the wrong idea, as to why Ableton has put a brick wall limiter inside Live, if you can make a statement like that. I also think, that all of these ill-conceived enhancements, are ill-conceived. They would harrow the workflow of many users. They would burden users with beta-tests, and bugs, to enhance the workflow of a few.
In all reality, one probably should not bother producing music, if they don't want to constantly be moving faders. Moving faders is part of the job. Sometimes you record a signal as hot as possible, sometimes you mix as quietly as possible. A faders default is zero. The only logical reason to change that, is if the producer doesn't want to bother moving faders. If you don't want to bother moving faders, take up tennis, cause music production is obviously not working.
You can not constantly keep a fader at -12, 0, or anything else. If you can find two different tracks, you have produced, with the exact same fader settings, you don't know what your doing. Faders go up, faders go down, that is essence of volume balancing. That is the art of mixing and production.
People too lazy to move a fader, shouldn't be bothering with this art form.
Re: A few workflow tweaks for Live 8 (if not already done)
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:12 am
by bland_handl
j2j wrote:all of these ill-conceived enhancements, are ill-conceived. They would harrow the workflow of many users.
the enhancement suggested in step 5 would not harrow a single user.
having the lengths of follow actions and loop-braces match the clip length would help anyone who uses the loop button or follow actions. For those that don't use them, this change would not get in the way, as they require the user to activate them.
currently these features are not being realised as efficiently in the workflow as they could be, because the default settings are arbitrary and require manual effort to change them - and they are always
always changed to match either the full clip length or to a value containing either the start or end of the clip.
just because this is of no value to you does not mean that it is ill conceived or not worthwhile
Re: A few workflow tweaks for Live 8 (if not already done)
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:11 am
by j2j
bland_handl wrote:the enhancement suggested in step 5 would not harrow a single user.
.....
just because this is of no value to you does not mean that it is ill conceived or not worthwhile
Well, it might be a good idea, it might be a bad idea. Try it out in a thread in the feature request forum, if you feel that passionately about it. If you can manage to get 10 pages of, "+1's and I agree's," I'll eat crow.
Until that day...
Number 5, along with the rest of them, is an ill conceived idea.
Cheers Mate...
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:13 am
by adventurepants_
youre a bit late with all of this!
Beta testing is about ironing out the bugs of new features its not about adding new ones, the feature set will already be locked down. You should send some email to ableton support if you want to add your ideas for features for the next version.