New laptop--what to get?

mikemc · Post by **mikemc** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:59 am

leedsquietman wrote: I haven't tried my wife's new laptop yet as it will be delivered tomorrow, but for 1200 canadian dollars inc. shipping and complete care warranty (covering drops and spills), we got a Dell studio 15, with 4 GB Ram, ATI 256 MB seperate graphics card, 250 GB 7200 rpm drive with auto shutoff detection (if dropped etc), creative audigy soundcard (which I don't expect to be any good for DAW work, but is better than usual for regular music playback), wifi, bluetooth and a ton of other features.

The only kicker for me is that it is Vista Home Premium SP1.

What speed processor is this? -- sounds pretty good.

Y;know, I really don't think there are problems with Vista 32 bit per se. I think some interface drivers have not been done well with Vista, but I have not had problems using it. There is one tip, which actually comes with the ASIO4All drivers, and that is to make sure your power scheme does not adjust CPU speed, that it is always 100%.

For me, any serious music production requires mains power, battery power is always a massive limitation. .

+1, a little daring to go on just battery power, because if you adjust your power scheme for longer battery life you sacrifice consistent performance: you cheat yourself.

the_woof · Post by **the_woof** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:15 am

Thanks for all the replies.

I'm leaning away from Mac right now. I've run Windows all my life, although I'm equally competent with Macs since we have them at school. I no longer have issues with Windows XP, and I like having the control over the OS that Windows affords (I swear, having .app files that are basically folders that are a pain to open will irk me). Then again, up until recently I'd been wanting a Mac, and I definitely don't want to be kicking myself for still using Windows.

I priced out an HP and a Thinkpad so far. I prefer the Thinkpad T500 since it's light, has dedicated graphics, and gets 7 hours of battery with the integrated graphics on (it's got switchable integrated/dedicated). It'll have power when I'm at home gaming, and battery life when I'm not.

@mikemc: My projects don't use too much CPU on my desktop at the moment (which has 1gb ram and an early model 2Ghz Core 2), so this laptop will probably have power to spare for me, maybe even when it's on battery. I'm not talking about full-on mixing or anything, since I'll be doing that in quiet, non-public spaces anyway. I just don't want to be tethered to a power cable or have to say "I have an hour and a half and then I have to plug in" when I'm somewhere just trying to mess around with a new melody or sample.

So what brands do you all like? What laptops do you have and how do they serve you?

Kirb · Post by **Kirb** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:50 am

Personally, I'd get this:

http://www.adkproaudio.com/systems/view ... cordid=119

Seems to hit all your needs: 15", video card, and will clock in at about $1500 depending on upgrades. Also, 1066 front side bus is nice, xp, and built with audio in mind.

I have a desktop from ADK and I love it.

xherv · Post by **xherv** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:12 am

jonny72 wrote: Nope, the MacBook's still have onboard graphics with shared memory except it is now an NVidia chipset rather than Intel. -

You're right, this is the correct information.

SubQ · Post by **SubQ** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:59 pm

it would be nice to see a live 7 performance test between adk and macbook pro with same specs...

andy c · Post by **andy c** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:47 pm

leedsquietman wrote:I haven't tried my wife's new laptop yet as it will be delivered tomorrow, but for 1200 canadian dollars inc. shipping and complete care warranty (covering drops and spills), we got a Dell studio 15, with 4 GB Ram, ATI 256 MB seperate graphics card, 250 GB 7200 rpm drive with auto shutoff detection (if dropped etc), creative audigy soundcard (which I don't expect to be any good for DAW work, but is better than usual for regular music playback), wifi, bluetooth and a ton of other features.

The only kicker for me is that it is Vista Home Premium SP1.

For me, any serious music production requires mains power, battery power is always a massive limitation. It is ok for DJing if your sets are very light track and plugin wise to go battery, but otherwise is a no-no.

I have had 4 Dell laptops and all of them were good performers. I'm still using my old monster Inspiron 9100 running a desktop P4 3.2 Ghz chip with 2 GB DDR and it works pretty good with Live in spite of being more than 4 years old - so long as you run it on mains power and try to keep it cool.

Please look at this ( http://www.google.com/search?q=dell+stu ... =firefox-a )
If it is a problem for you make sure you get the laptop back to dell in your 7 days. I did not and am now trying to get them to take it back. The dpc latency on this laptop is a big problem if you need to stream audio or video. I hate posting this up as for me so far dell have been good pc's and this laptop should be fantastic and will be if they can fix this.
Just be warned!

bytheriver · Post by **bytheriver** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:02 pm

I got a dell a year and a half ago, XPS 17" model from a reseller on ebay, its been a rock for me.

I've had two vaios (one awful, one ok) and its head and shoulders above them.

The aftercare they offer (mine came with it from the reseller) is great as well, when I first got it the gpu was dud which was why it was being resold, rang dell and a dude in a suit with a briefcase full of bits was at the door the next day to fit a new one.

I do have to say though, the idea of 'music on the move' is very good in theory, but in practice trying to do anything much on a crowded train or somewhere similar isn't the romantic and productive image you think of when browsing for laptops.

Even when you get an hour or two at college, by the time you've found somewhere, setup, got into the groove with no mouse/ keyboard/ monitors/ midi controler you'll find yourself wondering if a coffie with your course mates might have been the better option.

I'd say go for raw power that'll last you and give you good studio time when your at home, and dont worry about the battery to much.

Otherwise you may find yourself in 2 years with your CPU struggling and look back at the 2-3 times you managed to do something worthwhile on batterys and regret where you spent the money.

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:33 pm

my wife's laptop is not for DAW production, she will be using Microsoft Office, email and web browsing pretty much exclusively.

The speed is Core2Duo (Centrino Duo) 2.2 Ghz.

The latency is a Vista issue I think, rather than an issue with that specific laptop. I have yet to see a Vista powered anything run a good DPC latency check, even quad core super fast towers struggle to not go yellow and red when powered by Vista.

I saw your thread and I WILL check it out for curiosity's sake.

adventurepants_ · Post by **adventurepants_** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:12 pm

andy c wrote:
leedsquietman wrote:I haven't tried my wife's new laptop yet as it will be delivered tomorrow, but for 1200 canadian dollars inc. shipping and complete care warranty (covering drops and spills), we got a Dell studio 15, with 4 GB Ram, ATI 256 MB seperate graphics card, 250 GB 7200 rpm drive with auto shutoff detection (if dropped etc), creative audigy soundcard (which I don't expect to be any good for DAW work, but is better than usual for regular music playback), wifi, bluetooth and a ton of other features.

The only kicker for me is that it is Vista Home Premium SP1.

For me, any serious music production requires mains power, battery power is always a massive limitation. It is ok for DJing if your sets are very light track and plugin wise to go battery, but otherwise is a no-no.

I have had 4 Dell laptops and all of them were good performers. I'm still using my old monster Inspiron 9100 running a desktop P4 3.2 Ghz chip with 2 GB DDR and it works pretty good with Live in spite of being more than 4 years old - so long as you run it on mains power and try to keep it cool.

Please look at this ( http://www.google.com/search?q=dell+stu ... =firefox-a )
If it is a problem for you make sure you get the laptop back to dell in your 7 days. I did not and am now trying to get them to take it back. The dpc latency on this laptop is a big problem if you need to stream audio or video. I hate posting this up as for me so far dell have been good pc's and this laptop should be fantastic and will be if they can fix this.
Just be warned!

its a setup issue, its nothing to do with the hardware on the Dell. There is plenty of info on the net on how to resolve it. My 1720 had terrible latency out of the box, now its speedier than a speedy thing.

Are you using a firewire interface?

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:21 pm

I don't know yet from personal experience, but that definately sounds very likely to me.

Many issues with PCs are down to tweaking hardware issues, although I know that even in a finely tuned vista system, it's system latency while it can be OK when tweaked, is never as low as in XP.

I guess I will test it out and see, but as it's my wife's laptop, she'll probably cut off my hands if I install my DAW software on there

I don't think she'll mind me doing the DPC latency thing as that benefits general use too.

adventurepants_ · Post by **adventurepants_** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:43 pm

yeah, my comment was kind of assuming use of XP. Vista can get close in terms of latency, but not close enough, and it takes a reasonable amount of work, so i dont bother!

andy c · Post by **andy c** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:54 pm

well there is nothing left on the pc to tweak, all updated device drivers i have gone through the whole device manager the bios turning things off one by one still no change. I am on a usb sound card not firewire so it is not a non ti chip issue, in any case I still get the latency spikes with no external hardware plugged in. Vista has a slightly higher dpc latency tha xp granted but not as bad as I am seeing and the problem remains with a clean install of xp. I tried the batery as well, trust me if there is something i have missed I would LOVE to know because the new studio laptop is back in its box after a wekk of me pulling my hair out with it and not getting any work done so I have gone back to my 5 year old inspiron 5150. I am sure it could be fixed with a bios update but am not holding my breath. like i said before for anything other than high end audio/video work this laptop is really good for the price. if you could post up a screen grab of the dpc latency checker i would be interested to see i am getting consistant spikes of over 1000 micro seconds every 3 to 5 seconds regardless what i do.

rikhyray · Post by **rikhyray** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:53 am

andy c wrote:well there is nothing left on the pc to tweak, all updated device drivers i have gone through the whole device manager the bios turning things off one by one still no change. I am on a usb sound card not firewire so it is not a non ti chip issue, in any case I still get the latency spikes with no external hardware plugged in. Vista has a slightly higher dpc latency tha xp granted but not as bad as I am seeing and the problem remains with a clean install of xp. I tried the batery as well, trust me if there is something i have missed I would LOVE to know because the new studio laptop is back in its box after a wekk of me pulling my hair out with it and not getting any work done so I have gone back to my 5 year old inspiron 5150. I am sure it could be fixed with a bios update but am not holding my breath. like i said before for anything other than high end audio/video work this laptop is really good for the price. if you could post up a screen grab of the dpc latency checker i would be interested to see i am getting consistant spikes of over 1000 micro seconds every 3 to 5 seconds regardless what i do.

Today is my first day with Vista properly working with audio, have DPC running all the time for some 12 hours and it is all green.Cant believe it was just the idiotic Nvidia service.
http://forum.ableton.com//viewtopic.php ... ad003c22f2

adventurepants_ · Post by **adventurepants_** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:57 am

andy c wrote:well there is nothing left on the pc to tweak, all updated device drivers i have gone through the whole device manager the bios turning things off one by one still no change. I am on a usb sound card not firewire so it is not a non ti chip issue, in any case I still get the latency spikes with no external hardware plugged in. Vista has a slightly higher dpc latency tha xp granted but not as bad as I am seeing and the problem remains with a clean install of xp. I tried the batery as well, trust me if there is something i have missed I would LOVE to know because the new studio laptop is back in its box after a wekk of me pulling my hair out with it and not getting any work done so I have gone back to my 5 year old inspiron 5150. I am sure it could be fixed with a bios update but am not holding my breath. like i said before for anything other than high end audio/video work this laptop is really good for the price. if you could post up a screen grab of the dpc latency checker i would be interested to see i am getting consistant spikes of over 1000 micro seconds every 3 to 5 seconds regardless what i do.

when youre doing a clean install, are you using the Dell restore disc, or using a normal XP cd, then loading the drivers manually afterwards? The Dell restore disc comes with a lot of garbage. What antivirus do you have installed?

It is possible that there is a particular problem between your particular interface and that Studio model, happens in the PC world quite often. Dell released a BIOS patch for some models a while ago to address latency. Im assuming youre using right up to date drivers for BIOS and for your soundcard?

Have you tested with card reader, DVD drive, wireless and bluetooth disabled? Also for fun, turn your hardware acceleration off in display control panel and see if that affects it. Also try a generic driver for the video card instead of the Nvidia/Ati one, that fixed spikes for me on one machine.

Is it spiking while in an app, or just while DPC is running on the desktop with no apps?

mikemc · Post by **mikemc** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:43 am

READ RIKHYRAY'S THREAD, THERE IS GOOD MEDICINE THERE
anytime you can crack out proctool/perfmon etc on some kind of box that you are having issues with it is a good thing to do, you want to know where your 'unstoppable interrupts' and kernel usage are coming from.

rikhyray wrote: Today is my first day with Vista properly working with audio, have DPC running all the time for some 12 hours and it is all green.Cant believe it was just the idiotic Nvidia service.
http://forum.ableton.com//viewtopic.php ... ad003c22f2