Ableton Forum

gah you guys, why is it that everytime somebody asks a simple question about mastering plugins, everybody has to jump on their high horse and write a paragraph lecture about a) it's an art not a simple answer b) good software doesn't make good ears c) knowledge beats plugins everytime d) blah blah blah for chrissake the guy just asked for opinions on mastering software, not your personal philosophy on sound and how fucking mighty you are for knowing good music comes from good ears!

sorry. i'm red-wine-drunk and stumbled on this thread. just sick of how often this happens. i know, i know. suck it up chappie.

that said : if you've got real money, go for good mastering bundles, SONNOX is fantastic with the inflator+limiter. Voxengo stuff is relatively affordable (read: RELATIVELY) and sounds good, similarly easy to use as sonnox.

i've screwed around with ozone and never liked the results i got. felt gimmicky to me. t-racks, i think it *sounds* better but the interface is BS -- i hate the whole "emulate retro gear in the digital GUI" booooo....

so. sonnox sounds great. voxengo is good too. waves, don't have 'em, messed around and wasn't too impressed.....not that i'm an expert or anything.

/out

Jekblad wrote:i'd love it if some one did a "mastering" video demo using only live's devices.

that way us noobs can learn the proper way to use the standard tools.

I understand that it takes a lifetime to learn and execute properly, but i like to learn a lot, and i've learned a great deal about Live etc from video's guys have posted. so yeah.

I'm def going to read the katz book. thanks!

What exactly would you like to see? The issue with stuff like that is that every song needs to be treated different, so what you seein a vid might not apply at all for your own song.

Personally any time I see someone asking for opinions on mastering software, it usually means they don't know enough about mastering to warrent buying expensive "mastering" only plug ins. If you're looking for editing software for mastering, I'd say Wavelab Essentials is the best bang for the buck on PC, or Wave Editor by Audiofile on Mac. If you're looking for plug ins, I definitely think that Live 8's plug ins will be more than enough for someone new to mastering. EQ8 is more than clean enough in high-quality mode, and the new limiter (single band, ignore the mulitband at this stage) is definitely up to it.

I'd say start there until you understand WHY people pay more for different tools, because it's not until you understands the basics that you'll hear a difference with the 'better' plug ins anyway IMVHO.

The reason why people chime in on stuff like this is because if you don't have the knowledge, and spend your 300 bucks on Ozone or T-racks or whatever, you might as well just drink 300 dollars worth of beer and piss it up against a wall, because you won't get the results you're looking for - that's not the software's fault. You might stumble on a preset that seems to sound good, but that won't fly for every track, because every track presents it's own challenges - but many noobs fool themselves into thinking something like the 'moderate 16 bit limiting' preset on a Waves L2 or whatever should just be thrown in, regardless of the material, like's it's a magic button.

I don't claim to be a mastering expert, neither does Tarekith, but both of us and some others on this forum such as TD, Knotkranky and others have done mix finalizing and mastering jobs for other musicians because we can make some impact with our knowledge and experience and do it for a more affordable price. And for sure, as well as taking courses, reading material such as Katz's book, has definately helped me improve my end product.

I would always suggest that if you can spare the budget, get your work mastered at a real mastering facility where they have tens and sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars of top monitors, top end clocking and AD/DA converters that our audio interfaces cannot match, and amazing hardware outboard gear as well as software plugins. But otherwise, the work provided by the likes of Tarekith is good bang for buck or learn how to use the tools and software plugins can make a noticeable and positive difference.

BTW - I also have Harbal 2.3 and find it a very useful mastering EQ, I always use it manually though, as the auto adjustments can improve things but only put you in the ball park, not hit the home run. The disadvantage is having to run it standalone. It's great to be able to reference other material and compare, but Voxengo's Curve EQ has a similar feature too and is a VST plugin. I have PSP Mastercomp, PSP 84 and Neon EQ so I am a fan, I'm sure the limiter is fine too, but VOxengo's Elephant limiter to me gives the most range and control, seriously, they could charge 3 times the amount for it and it would still be worth it.

i totally hear you guys, and when i do a real project i'll pay real money. and when i do a demo i'll pay tarekeith.

but until i have something to distribute i'd love see a video where a guy uses the Live devices to do a mastering example on a standard "dance/electronic" tune. Or a rock tune.

Fully understanding that each song needs different treatment, but it's at least a point in the right direction. Even applying the same techniques to the wrong tracks could be helpful to some people, if they can listen.


So the video will be a use at your own risk just for one example of basic practice with standard tools. Regardless, if you think it wouldn't be helpful at all it's no big deal

Have you read this?

http://tarekith.com/assets/mastering.html

yes i have read it, but was worth the re-read! thanks

if a picture is worth a thousand words, a video is worth at least that much. probably

If I had the money to buy an expensive mastering bundle I recon I'd spend it on getting the tunes mastered professionally instead, or at least by a more experienced, different set of ears to my own. You might even find somebody who could get a far better job done for a fair bit less than a plugin bundle, especially where Waves are concerned.

Rave wrote:I find the exciter really harsh. Do u use it on the master bus?

well. you have to use it tastefully. try doing 10-15 points of excitation to a high band and then only 30% mix. you gotta just be subtle!

works great for me.

and yes, i use it on the master bus. when im mastering. i do not apply it during mixing.

thanx for all advise just ordered the sonnox elite package for $2,500 will give that a go

How did you go from $250 for Ozone to $2500 for Sonnox?

That is quite a misunderstanding of zeros.

mpk49guy wrote:thanx for all advise just ordered the sonnox elite package for $2,500 will give that a go

ah, the silver spoon life

I know I'll come across as an over-critical bitch, but I checked, and the OP posted a few posts recently

" how do I make a snare roll"
"what is a multi-sample snare"
" how do I connect a microphone to my PC"
" I just spent $2,500 on mastering software"

for some reason this makes me understand the world I live in lot better.

Angstrom wrote:I know I'll come across as an over-critical bitch, but I checked, and the OP posted a few posts recently

" how do I make a snare roll"
"what is a multi-sample snare"
" how do I connect a microphone to my PC"
" I just spent $2,500 on mastering software"

for some reason this makes me understand the world I live in lot better.

Such a quantum leap from connecting your mic to your pc to mastering. With my luck the poster will end up selling a million records in the next year while I still truck along over 20 years later. No offense to the original poster, just an example of the sense of humor that the universe seems to have at my expense.....

Ableton Live Suite $500

Sonnox Elite $2500

uber-pwnage on the Live forum... priceless