Ableton Forum

kb420 wrote:

starving student wrote:i'd get a 2500+jjos over the 5000 anyday of the week.
add a real synth and Live 8= happiness.

Ok. Let's take a look at that scenario.

MPC 2500 full blown:

$1899
http://1226354.estore.networksolutionsd ... l.bok?no=1


or

The Bundle:
(Total cost $1538.91)

Maschine:
$599.97
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Maschine/

BPM:
$279.97
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BPM

APC40:
$399.97
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/APC40

Live 8 Suite Boxed Upgrade:
$259.00


Still a difference of $360.09. Still, you get a lot more bang for the buck with "The Bundle".


I'm not a MPC or Akai hater, I just want to get a feel for what people think about hardware drum machines now that software has soo many options for drum and sample arrangement. I heard something about Akai dropping the MPC4000 because sales were terrible on it. I don't actually know how sales on the 5000 are going, and I'm just curious to see how people feel about the 5000 now.

With cpu power constantly increasing, and software options ever expanding, have the MPC's lost their place in the production world?

Or is the MPC workflow still king?

oh don't get me wrong I agree with you kb about the bundle being more bang for the buck but I just thought
that any way you look at it the 5000 is a rip, most of the features (not all) are in the 1000 and 2500 and I think the 2500 gives one most of what one might want out of the 5000 conveniently leaving out the stuff that's not working well or not up to par, i like some of its features like it's arp and some other things but honestly the arp is better than the synth, i'd rather have a 2500 and a microkorg and live 8, the set up you have already is so dope, the 3000, the asr10 among other things you'd only dilute it with the 5000 . the setup you already have and any number of softsynths would eat the 5000, but for those few 5000 specific features jjs os has alot of them already and actualy might have been the impetus for the 5000 os, if you check over there at mpc-forum hell.com and look at the comparisons you'll see what i'm talking about.

I still haven't really seen anyone talk about the combo of just any mpc and Live8 vs. machine or bpm, or the apc, the only thing that mashine has that I wish the mpc had was that roland rps feature where you can play a sequence from a pad, but even with that feature on the mpc you could resample the sequence to a pad, or you could trigger it from a pad by pressing a number button and hitting the pad so those are viable work arounds, it's kind of funny in that the mpc has alot of what the folks lookin into the maschine really want. cause maschines main points are 1. hardware, 2. almost mouseless usage, and 3. browsing samples while listening to a track play. I think the mpc covers all of that and on top has the bonus of actualy being able to take away from the computer and use on it's own which is maschines great shortcoming. so I'm curious myself really, what all is capable with the mpc/live 8 combo vs. the others? I know maschines got templates, and the mpc can have 99 templates, I know that maschine has chromatic pad setups and that you can have this on the mpc as well ssssssssssssso. i dunno but i should figure it out cause i'm intrested in maschine too

Blip the Kid wrote:hold on! the MPC grooves are only available with the Suite? Are you for serious?

No, I wasn't saying that, I was just speaking from the point of view that he was considering buying suite. Groove is in regular 8.

I'm still interested in Maschine, but I'm definitely waiting for at least one more update as it still seems to be catching up to what it should've been in the first place, features-wise.

As for the topic question, I'd go with the MPC 2500 if I was going MPC at all; combined with Live I don't see what the need would be to spend all that extra money on the 5000. For hard disk recording and a built-in synth? Those things are better served on the computer through software IMO. Or with all the money saved you could buy a hardware synth.

For me personaly I'll either end up with Maschine or the 1000 along with the Live Suite. And no BPM as it is dongled and a direct rip-of of Guru!

Superchibisan wrote:mpcs should eventually become obsolete thanks to ableton

Already are...

i think ultimately the answer is use whatever you want to use and feel gets the best out of you..if this is a combination of hardware/software then so be it..

I use the roland mv8800 (roland equivalent of mpc) and whilst I'm not getting into a mpc / mv argument anyone considering a mpc should check them out (soundonsound certainly favours them!)

Anyway, back to the point, i think people have missed the point a little bit about why mpcs are still pretty popular

1) stability - yes I know some of the mpcs have bugs, but in general they just work. from day one to day dot. no hardrive filling up with crap, no wireless lan affecting soundcard, no antivirus cr*pping on your latency
2) you can still be using it 10/20 years from now...will the same be said for maschine? no. with os upgrades some people get left in the dust when companies fail to issue driver updates etc..I'm not saying NI will do this, but I pretty much guarentee maschine won't work properly in 10 years
3) midiclock - for driving/sequencing hardware synths/drum machines etc they just work!

Yes I know computers/ableton/etc are WAY more powerful nowadays and I think not using them fullstop is pretty foolish but..
people made absolutely amazing music on very very basic equipment 20/30 whatever years ago.. Its not what you use it's how you use it. I'm not suggesting for a minute that I'm one of these people that can make amazing music..I'm still learning big style, but I went down the hardware for the limitations, for the fact that I could turn it on and use it without turning off my wifi/antivirus first and also for the fact that when I see an act on stage and he's got a table full of gear I find that soo much better to watch than a guy on a laptop.

I think there is still life in hardware sequencers!

peace!

Marx wrote:

Superchibisan wrote:mpcs should eventually become obsolete thanks to ableton

Already are...

yeah right, and operator makes hardware synths obsolete and virtual guitarist made guitars obsolete

kids what will they think of next

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCxfRdHG ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgOG0S3U ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-28dIV-j ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reFoTLbU ... re=related

kb420 wrote: Or is the MPC workflow still king?

Marx wrote:

Superchibisan wrote:mpcs should eventually become obsolete thanks to ableton

Already are...

compared to ableton, live 4 made my mpc 2000 collect dust.

and I sold it..


how about this.. maschine, apc, live, and MY TR 909 so I can by maschind apc and live also!!

now we're talking!

*edit, hey you can delete your own post now.

starving student wrote:

Marx wrote:

Superchibisan wrote:mpcs should eventually become obsolete thanks to ableton

Already are...

yeah right, and operator makes hardware synths obsolete and virtual guitarist made guitars obsolete

kids what will they think of next

lol.....?

kb420 wrote:I just want to get a feel for what people think about hardware drum machines now that software has soo many options for drum and sample arrangement.

I'm not commenting on MPC's, but on hardware drum machines in general. I absolutley LOVE hardware drum machines!

There is something about sitting down with a small box of beats and nothing else, and really pushing the limits of what a device is capable of. It's nice to get away from the laptop, sit on the sofa with just a small box and headphones, and bash away.

Of course, you can transfer those beats as loops into Live and process them further. I find it inspiring to cut off from the computer for a while.

I like the look of Maschine, the APC, and all other manner of softeware related things... but personally, I'm saving for a Machinedrum.

obsolete thanks to ableton. HA!

Well, to each their own, but such software fanboyism to the extent of scoffing at hardware is no better than the reverse fanboyism seen on the mpc forums. I'd think we're slightly smarter than that over here.

To the OP.... FYI, I was able to get my MPC 2500 for just under 800 bucks on ebay. Do a little bit of searching and for a little over the price of Maschine you'll be able to find a second-hand MPC 2500... or a secondhand MPC 1000 for even less than you'd pay for Maschine. And you get added stand-alone functionality, if you so desire.

I'm not trying to persuade you to one side or the other, really, just showing that you can find a decently priced MPC if you really want one. I'm one of those people who are perfectly comfortable using both hardware and software, so i really don't feel the need to preach in favor of hardware. Whatever works for you.

Maschine does look kind of cool and tempting at times. I just think i'd be more inclined to get it if it were able to run stand-alone. But that's just me. I like to break away from the computer screen every once in a while

aqua_tek wrote:obsolete thanks to ableton. HA!
To the OP.... FYI, I was able to get my MPC 2500 for just under 800 bucks on ebay. Do a little bit of searching and for a little over the price of Maschine you'll be able to find a second-hand MPC 2500... or a secondhand MPC 1000 for even less than you'd pay for Maschine. And you get added stand-alone functionality, if you so desire.

I noticed on the MPC forums that a lot of MPC users are buying second hand. That seems to be the way.

My biggest issue with MPC's is tracking. It's soo much easier with Live's Drum racks than it is with a hardware drum machine. In other words, in Drum Racks you can tweak each individual drum sound or sample any way you want with all of the VST plug in effects you choose. It's instant. No playing around with patch cables for mutiple outputs and muting tracks on multiple takes. It's already there. I've always felt that the MPC line should have come up with some sort "mlan" connection where your audio and midi are channels are sent to the computer via a firewire connection.

jamester wrote: I'd go with the MPC 2500 if I was going MPC at all; combined with Live I don't see what the need would be to spend all that extra money on the 5000.

960 ppq?

kb420 wrote:

aqua_tek wrote:obsolete thanks to ableton. HA!
To the OP.... FYI, I was able to get my MPC 2500 for just under 800 bucks on ebay. Do a little bit of searching and for a little over the price of Maschine you'll be able to find a second-hand MPC 2500... or a secondhand MPC 1000 for even less than you'd pay for Maschine. And you get added stand-alone functionality, if you so desire.

I noticed on the MPC forums that a lot of MPC users are buying second hand. That seems to be the way.

My biggest issue with MPC's is tracking. It's soo much easier with Live's Drum racks than it is with a hardware drum machine. In other words, in Drum Racks you can tweak each individual drum sound or sample any way you want with all of the VST plug in effects you choose. It's instant. No playing around with patch cables for mutiple outputs and muting tracks on multiple takes. It's already there. I've always felt that the MPC line should have come up with some sort "mlan" connection where your audio and midi are channels are sent to the computer via a firewire connection.

jamester wrote: I'd go with the MPC 2500 if I was going MPC at all; combined with Live I don't see what the need would be to spend all that extra money on the 5000.

960 ppq?

MLaN ? what a disaster, I think it's only good if you would rather do troubleshooting instead of music.
and 960 ppq, not so bad at all, all of the classic wonderful music you know and love more than not used that resolution or even less

kb420 wrote:
My biggest issue with MPC's is tracking. It's soo much easier with Live's Drum racks than it is with a hardware drum machine. In other words, in Drum Racks you can tweak each individual drum sound or sample any way you want with all of the VST plug in effects you choose. It's instant. No playing around with patch cables for mutiple outputs and muting tracks on multiple takes. It's already there.

I understand that point. Totally valid. This is basically the case with any hardware instrument. It's a deal-breaker to many, and to others it's not. I see it as one of those typical hardware limitations that helps spark my creativity.

Hello, everyone.

This is my first post on the forum.

I found this video about the Akai APC40 that might be of help.

Peace!