Ableton Forum

Posted: **Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:08 pm**

no genre's just good, bad and a tempo.

Posted: **Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:20 pm**

Martyn wrote: I feel like picking the cd cases out and spinning then across the shop like frisbees, straight at the heads of the trendy looking twats behind the counter and screaming "here, dance to this one, and this one..and ..this one!! Stupid apathetic bastards!!!"

Name a store and a date and I'm there dude, we shall frisbee as one!!!

Posted: **Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:25 pm**

Minimal Justice System wrote:
Martyn wrote: I feel like picking the cd cases out and spinning then across the shop like frisbees, straight at the heads of the trendy looking twats behind the counter and screaming "here, dance to this one, and this one..and ..this one!! Stupid apathetic bastards!!!"
Name a store and a date and I'm there dude, we shall frisbee as one!!!

It'd be an arrestable thing to do for sure but when you think about the publicity it'd get it might actually be worth doing.

Posted: **Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:30 pm**

Genre - same root word as 'generic'

Posted: **Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:31 pm**

Martyn wrote:
Minimal Justice System wrote:
Martyn wrote: I feel like picking the cd cases out and spinning then across the shop like frisbees, straight at the heads of the trendy looking twats behind the counter and screaming "here, dance to this one, and this one..and ..this one!! Stupid apathetic bastards!!!"
Name a store and a date and I'm there dude, we shall frisbee as one!!!
It'd be an arrestable thing to do for sure but when you think about the publicity it'd get it might actually be worth doing.

We would need a name for our counter-genre activities, DJ's for De-genreification?? or Don't name that tune???

I've clearly thought too much about this already!!

Posted: **Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:05 pm**

It's all either techno, house or cheesy shit really.

Of course or broken stuff but i don't really go there much.

The labesl actually make a bit of sense though, it's just a navigational thing.

perhaps you are getting to old as you said.

I hear country is pretty big these days with the older generation, that's not got too many genres. . .

It seems to work like this in the art world, new order is set up, new dudes come along and want to do somehting different to what has happened before, needs new identity etc. Other people come along, bandwaggon and eithe make it better or dilute it. repeat ad infinitum and this is why you have so many genres.

There is a huge difference to the music of say Stimming or Apparat to the music of Clone Records in the netherlands or someone like Lindstrom. An uneducated listener might not hear the difference but if you were to say to a jazz buff that Trane sounded like Onette COleman or Coleman Hawkins, again to the uneducated ear it's all the same, but to he poerson who tkes an active interest these classifications can help identify what you like and don't like easily and to define a certain sound or vibe of the music. Discounting that because some people are narrow minded enough to say i don't like this or I don't like that seems a bit strange especially when one has to consider that 'people' in the larger sense are effectively stupid fucks...

Posted: **Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:35 pm**

tw1nstates wrote: perhaps you are getting to old as you said.

Yes I think I am.... Break out the Dolly Parton!!

tw1nstates wrote: It seems to work like this in the art world, new order is set up, new dudes come along and want to do somehting different to what has happened before, needs new identity etc.

Justification for plagiarism then, doing the same thing as someone else and giving it a new name to call it your own!!

I guess what you are saying is right in that it's all done for the geeks and nerds (of which I guess I'm one) who like to know the tiniest detail of their favoured music choice and on the other hand it's also done for the knuckle dragging idiots who need a social badge to wear be it heavy metal or hard dance (I only picked two sounds at random so please nobody get angry!!) We need labels for things so they don't scare us by being something we don't understand!!

Posted: **Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:18 am**

First came the musician, then came the music critic. Musicians have never really needed labels or genres for themselves. Music critics need them to do their jobs, apparently. Also, the non-musical music-listening public seems to need them to describe to their friends what they're listening to.

If you want to just write music for your own enjoyment, no labels needed. If you want to sell or promote your music, you need to have a target market(s). This means sometimes describing what your music is like. "Dance music" could mean anything from classical waltzes, house, electro, to gothic tribal belly dance.

I honestly wouldn't worry too much about it.

Posted: **Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:51 am**

Genres are funny. I remember when minimal techno was just a stripped down groove absent of a melody. Now anything with clicky beats and maximal production tricks is called "minimal". Electronic music is plagued by genres.

Posted: **Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:17 am**

JJarvis wrote:Genres are funny. I remember when minimal techno was just a stripped down groove absent of a melody. Now anything with clicky beats and maximal production tricks is called "minimal". Electronic music is plagued by genres.

I get told I'm minimal quite frequently just because I don't feel the need for vocals or excessive melody... To me those are just trimmings to make the beat a little more appetising.

In this respect I find a lot of people treat dance music like a indian buffet and get too excited about the samosas, pakora and onion bhajis when it's the vast selection of curries that they should really be tring to experience....

What I'm trying to get at with the old curry analogy is that most dance music has a similar beat and we get too caught up in what's different about our music taste rather than trying to enjoy it as the social medium it truly is.

There will always be cheesy crap churned out with no thought whatsoever but beyond that we should be able to just enjoy the music without needing to analyze it, label it and stick it on a shelf!!!

Posted: **Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:27 am**

Minimal Justice System wrote: beyond that we should be able to just enjoy the music without needing to analyze it, label it and stick it on a shelf!!!

there are no 'shoulds' in life.

musicians have been trying to get people to do what you're saying since forever, it's time to just accept the fact that people love to name things. human beings are analyzers , organizers and categorizers by nature, go with it.

Posted: **Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:29 am**

UKRuss wrote:tarnce

No, as an old fart of 42 years I reckon that "tarnce" must be the current charty shite like Tiesto and Basshunter whereas "DJ' s Misjahs' Access" and the like from the 90's is classic techno trance.

Mind you - I think the new young generation have to take what they want/like from our musical legacy and run with it, do what they want with it.. iTs theire time now.
-----------------------
RnB used to mean Rhythm and Blues - Yadbirds, Clapton etc..

Times change...

Its just progress - Maybe the more enlightened youngsters will realise, as my generation had to - Musical Evolution...they owe us some credit!!

When I was a punk in the 70s & 80's punk rock were hated and it was hard to get gigs and were banned by the TV,
A few years later the media was awash with Nirvana and Green day.

Same goes for 'Dance Music'

In the early 90's it was the stuff of the devil.

96' came and our underground rave scene was the new media play thing. Adverts got all 'tripped out' and had techno & drum and bass jingles.

Then came Sasha n Tiesto et all, Kevin & Perry went to Ibiza... and the rest is history.

Never mind.

Same thing happened in the 60's.

Hippys had the sense to kill 'Hippy' before it was too late.

Wish we had that forethought.

Mind you, the same old free party ppl are still doing it round my way for 'bugger all money' and still play the best underground sounds that dont induce vomit.

Posted: **Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:00 am**

Martyn wrote:I recently bought a Murcof CD from my local HMV, it was in the "Dance" section, along with many other cds that I'm really into but could IN NO WAY dance to. Maybe some talented modern dance group might have been able to put some wild avant-garde movement together to do it some justice but I certainly couldn't, not without seriously scaring my long suffering girlfriend and the cat.

That's just one example out of a lot of music I like that I can only find in that thin little cd shelf simply because it doesn't have GUITARS ON IT!!!
I feel like picking the cd cases out and spinning then across the shop like frisbees, straight at the heads of the trendy looking twats behind the counter and screaming "here, dance to this one, and this one..and ..this one!! Stupid apathetic bastards!!!" (deep breaths...in..out...in....out) That said, I don't think HMV (for example) should have all the various "dance" sub genres because there are so many that it's just INSANE!

There should be no categories at all. I know, I know, ipods need them to sort stuff and djs need to describe what they're spinning ect, but I can't help thinking that music in general would be better off without labels completely. We can do away with music journalists at the same time, after all most labels, pidgeonholes and categories come straight from the lips/pens of those sychophantic arseholes in the first place.

Why can't we just have the artists name, and djs that just become known for what they play, why do we NEED categories?

Yeah this really pisses me off about music stores. A lot of the time the music I like isn't in any specific genre - or if it is I don't give a damn - so I might search around for something for ages in where I think it might be and some store flunky has placed in somewhere else because some marketing blurb says so. Simple alphabetic lists would be much better. At most they should separate off a section for classical, jazz and folk/world and even then there are many who sit in several at the same time or crossover (John Martyn for example) but all the million and one micro genres for pop, rock and electronica are just stupid and many are just based on ridiculous things like playing a bit faster/slower or using more of a certain instrument or effect.

Posted: **Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:02 am**

funky shit wrote:Just say EDM.
Electronic Dance Music

EDM, like it, simple and to the point. I always though IDM sounded pretentious, which alot of it was.

ECM = Electronic chillout music
EUM = Electronic Urban music

that pretty much covers everything electronic

ASS = Acoustic Symphonic sounds ?
APS = Acoustic Pretentious Songwriting?

Posted: **Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:06 am**

Emissary wrote:
funky shit wrote:Just say EDM.
Electronic Dance Music
EDM, like it, simple and to the point. I always though IDM sounded pretentious, which alot of it was.

We dont wanr to go into the world of TLA's.... Three letter acronyms are the devils work!!! If you've ever worked in IT you swiftly begin to loathe the buggers!!

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