Ableton Forum

as a traditional DAW Logic is by far the best - this should be accompanied by an IMO, or IMHO.

Logic is a very good program, but there are plenty out there who prefer other alternatives, such as Cubase, DP, Sonar, Samplitude and Protools. Logic is one of the steepest learning curves to master IMHO.

I have used Cubase, Logic and PTHD on a regular basis over the past 8 years and have dabbled in Sonar (and also ACID and Reason), all of them have their own set of advantages and disadvantages, and their own personal fan base. Logic is a popular choice on the Mac platform, for obvious reasons given that Apple bought it from Emagic (where it was PC only) and didn't make it cross platform. It bundles a lot in one package for a good price, but there are people who prefer the workflow in other DAWS, including me. I personally prefer Cubase, especially given that I run PC at home. If I was using a Mac at home though, I would have to say Logic has better native support on OSX, so would probably use it ahead of Cubase, but Cubase's GUI and workflow I find better, but although cross platform, it doesn't natively support AU plugins and it's core audio support is not as optimized as Logic. (I honestly believe though that Apple hold back code from other developers as to give Logic an advantage).

Live does play well with other DAWS, although with some caveats as mentioned. I generally prefer to create songs in Live and mix them in Cubase, and just render audio out for that purpose.

leedsquietman wrote: Apple bought it from Emagic (where it was PC only) and didn't make it cross platform.

Good insight with your post as a whole mate.

[twocents]

but... In 1995 I was using LogicAudio-2.5 on an Apple 66mhz Power-PC.
It was the environment page for Midi that makes it so powerfull then 2/2.5 came along with Audio.
Apple made it Mac-Only.

So its the Midi capabilities of the 'ENVIRONMENT' window/page thingy in Logic that traditionally made/make it so powefull compared to other DAW's

Therefore Logic for Midi and Ableton for Audio is a good combo.

[/twocents]

And I think you can drag and drop stuff between the two ?

If you take the time to get to know Logic, it certainly is a very powerful software. I also think it offers the best value for money of any of the traditional DAWs given it's plugin collection and inclusion of SOundtrack Pro 2 and Mainstage etc (not to mention existing features like Waveburner which give you red book compliant CD burning).

It still has some weaknesses though and I personally prefer Cubase's GUI and workflow, the environment is a bit of an acquired taste. I think if you've got a Mac, it's a no brainer to get Logic, although some Digital Performer users may disagree. I think Logic is better optimized for Mac than anything else. Just be aware though that most of Logic's functionality is not exclusive and alternatives do exist in other software, especially PC based DAWS where Logic is not available, so many Mac users haven't compared the workflow in Sonar or Cubase etc.

I used Logic Audio Gold back before apple bought it. I was using it in film alongside ProTools 4. I liked them for film, I liked protools more, only b/c Logic is a beast with a huge learning curve. I still don't !#@#$ know what the enviornments were for. I tried a demo of Live 4 and bought the full version the next day. I was waiting at the door for the guy when the store opened so I could make beats all day, I've never been happier. I've used Logic, Cubase, Protools. Garageband for a few things, and Live is the only one for my. Logic and pro tools have come a long way since I was using them last, they definitely haver their places though

I have ableton 7, logic 8 and dp 6 just so I can have the virtual instruments of each. but production wise, the only reason ableton is still my go to program is bcuz of the midi effects in ableton are pretty unique. I'm still working on seeing which program I want to mix in, DP and logic seems like the obvious choice as DP was the 2nd DAW I ever learned (protools the 1st)and I'm a fairly new to logic but hear nothing but good things but ableton just has a place on my heart bcuz its different and that the way my brain works, sometimes I feel like ableton was made just for me

gRave Robber wrote:I still don't !#@#$ know what the enviornments were for.

its max4live for logic

shlomo wrote:

gRave Robber wrote:I still don't !#@#$ know what the enviornments were for.

its max4live for logic

best answer!
by the way: you don´t have to look at the logic environment at all to work with logic (at least with logic8 ).

logic has much more professional features than live8, especially for midi-work, composing and film-music.
score editor, drum-grids, adjustable midi-dynamics and transposing in direct access, multi screen support, midi event list, multiple midi editors at the same time, tempo curves,... i could go on for hours. live is much "lighter", with all pros and cons. making film music with orchestral sounds in live would be much harder than in logic... is there anybody out there who ever tried?
but dancefloor and electric stuff is perfect for live, much faster and more logic than in logic

I like using them both for diff things personally. My sound creation workflow is a hell of a lot faster in Live but I adore Logic's bundled effects and instruments. I pretty much can't stand Logic's timeline though. Compared to every other Daw software I've ever used, it's just clunky, fiddely and Buggy in many aspects. But...The built in fx/instruments More than make up for it. And the piano roll midi editor is far more advanced than Live's.
Logic's handling of audio files and samples is also very archaic compared to every other daw, it seems. It really seems to be all about The Midi Functionality and fx in Logic.
Anyways, what I've been doing is writing my stuff in Live and then Bouncing out track length Submix stems and imorting them into logic to do the final mix there with Logic's Linear phase eq's and whatever other last minute processing I decide. Also Logic (being tightly integrated and optimized for os x) is really good at creating an absurd number of duplicate tracks with duplicate fx and settings without seeming to really tax the cpu the way that Live does. In which case it's really handy to create multiple empty tracks all with they're own diff fx chains that basically act as fx containers that you can easily drag spliced chunks of audio to for quick real time processing. I love doing that.

What's Logic?

I often ask myself this question, usually after another foot in mouth moment

I often have those moments

Saxer wrote:

shlomo wrote:

gRave Robber wrote:I still don't !#@#$ know what the enviornments were for.

its max4live for logic

best answer!
by the way: you don´t have to look at the logic environment at all to work with logic (at least with logic8 ).

logic has much more professional features than live8, especially for midi-work, composing and film-music.
score editor, drum-grids, adjustable midi-dynamics and transposing in direct access, multi screen support, midi event list, multiple midi editors at the same time, tempo curves,... i could go on for hours. live is much "lighter", with all pros and cons. making film music with orchestral sounds in live would be much harder than in logic... is there anybody out there who ever tried?
but dancefloor and electric stuff is perfect for live, much faster and more logic than in logic

I see, Max4Live seems easier to wrap my head around, thanks for the post, I see the enviornments now in a way I can now understand

audiovoid wrote:I like using them both for diff things personally. My sound creation workflow is a hell of a lot faster in Live but I adore Logic's bundled effects and instruments. I pretty much can't stand Logic's timeline though. Compared to every other Daw software I've ever used, it's just clunky, fiddely and Buggy in many aspects. But...The built in fx/instruments More than make up for it. And the piano roll midi editor is far more advanced than Live's.
Logic's handling of audio files and samples is also very archaic compared to every other daw, it seems. It really seems to be all about The Midi Functionality and fx in Logic.
Anyways, what I've been doing is writing my stuff in Live and then Bouncing out track length Submix stems and imorting them into logic to do the final mix there with Logic's Linear phase eq's and whatever other last minute processing I decide. Also Logic (being tightly integrated and optimized for os x) is really good at creating an absurd number of duplicate tracks with duplicate fx and settings without seeming to really tax the cpu the way that Live does. In which case it's really handy to create multiple empty tracks all with they're own diff fx chains that basically act as fx containers that you can easily drag spliced chunks of audio to for quick real time processing. I love doing that.

I agree, I have been using Logic since '96 and it has been my workhorse, I have been Apple Certified in it since 2004, and I own Logic Control Live though is a completely different beast. I originally purchased Live for Djing. As I used Live more and more the newer versions rolled out, Live has become my main DAW. I use Logic mostly for mix and mastering now, although I love all the effects and synths included I must say. There is just something about Live,...... it is an audio playground, flipping the DJing and producing paradigm on their heads. I am really looking forward to MAX for Live. I now use Live 8 Suite about 75-80% of the time in the studio. I am loving the APC40. It has replaced my DJ controller and Traktor now. What's next.... a modular audio design environment....
JV

existe wrote: Would Live 8 be viewed as a replacement or a compliment to Logic 8?

complement

I started with Live about a year ago, around that time Logic was my main composing DAW. I use SSL Soundscape Editor for traditional Recording and Mixing.

Today I do not touch Logic anymore for composing work - I finished the tracks I started with Logic. But all new projects are made in Live - Great programm, far better workflow for composing than in Logic. Session View lets me play around with the musical elements creatively. Loop and sample adaption, stretching and manipulation possibilities seem endless. I also like the clean and simple GUI of LIVE very much.

The new Suite 8 Library is very good aswell - it remind me a bit of getting my first Kurzweil K2000 15 years ago - All the sounds are simply working in an arrangement, which is far more important for me, than having that "super, hyper spectacular" preset, that does not leave room for any other sounds (although some instrument rack presets surely have that spectacular quality).

I also mix the project in Live, because in my case I mix already a lot during the creation process of the song/remix. For outside mixing I use the SSL Soundscape Mixer.

The latest Ableton slogan sums it up for me:

Make Music!