APC minimal edition

[Angstrom]

There's a lot of controllers that have dead pickup faders but for whatever reason this is inexcusable on an APC40?

I know there are lots out there, some people like them, while others don't.

I'm not saying it's inexcusable at all, I'm saying I wish they did a version without them. That's quite different than saying it's inexcusable.
And yes, I can look past my own preferences, I know that many people are fine with these things and also will not mind the way the mixer functions are handled in these kind of products. But, I'm hardly going to start a thread about "I'm glad other people like the mixer" because what is the point of that. I started a thread that stated my own preference - which is : I don't like those mixers, I think they are badly thought out, and that most people will already have a 'mixer' that is equivalent. So, it devalues the truly innovative part.

My own preference which happens to be that I do not like that way of working, so half of this device is underselling itself to me. It's like having a beautiful sportscar with a wheelbarrow welded to the back for extra storage. I applaud the sportscar, but question the decision on the wheelbarrow.

At some point when the UK price drops to more reasonable levels I'll probably buy an APC , and then I will look for a use for those faders and the whole panning/fx selection thing. I can't think of one right now. I'm glad that other people can and that this fits in with the way they work. I can understand why those people would rush to buy it now. I will wait because it's not quite right for me.

[hoffman2k]

One mans useless faders are another mans velocity sliders.
Just because it isn't made to bang out beats, doesn't mean you can't.

I assume these faders scroll along with the grid. But just like automap, you can override their function with MIDI Learn. If you're in a situation where you use 8 tracks (or a set mixed to a subgroups), you definitely are going to get some use out of these faders.

Still not sold on it either. I was set to buy one to hack it, but I think I'll just bribe Tone with some Live packs or something.

[Tone Deft]

there are many options for track volume, the APC is unique for clip launching. makes sense. it's the opposite direction from the thread asking for an APC with a built in sound card, which I disagreed with.


I'm very bribeable.

[Angstrom]

imagine how much more expensive it would be if they had motorized faders. and even if it did, people would probably not only complain about the price but they'd also want some nickle-plated yadda yadda shit instead of the ones it came with.

I'm not suggestion flying faders because the cost would likely be prohibitive, but there are other solutions to the common mixer problems.

my own (cheap) solution to this is one I've not ever seen implemented. The fader is still dead, but has a strip of LEDs up the side, the LEDs show the current output volume of the track, a VU meter always looks nice on stage . cheap old green and red LEDs would do fine.

Second, the LED's have an alternate mode which can show the 'pickup' pint of the GUI control for that channel.

that could either be accessed via a toggle switch, or by some persistent inversion of the VU activity.

anyway, I've never seen it done and I consider it a cheap way of indicating the pickup position of the GUI control

[Johnisfaster]

anyway, I've never seen it done and I consider it a cheap way of indicating the pickup position of the GUI control

I'm just guessing here but I'm thinking it's probably never been done because it's not a huge selling point. it would raise the cost of building it, so then the retail would go up slightly, and since "VU meters on the faders!" isn't gonna sell very many more units (some sure, but how many more sales than without?) and since the higher price is gonna hinder sales to some degree it just doesn't seem logical to add that feature.

[Angstrom]

anyway, I've never seen it done and I consider it a cheap way of indicating the pickup position of the GUI control

I'm just guessing here but I'm thinking it's probably never been done because it's not a huge selling point. it would raise the cost of building it, so then the retail would go up slightly, and since "VU meters on the faders!" isn't gonna sell very many more units (some sure, but how many more sales than without?) and since the higher price is gonna hinder sales to some degree it just doesn't seem logical to add that feature.

interesting point of view.

and how do you feel about VU meters on audio mixers?

[Johnisfaster]

I see the argument you're trying to make there but VU meters on a mixer are a selling point, but add them to the apc40 and do you really think they would sell XX more units dispite the slightly higher price tag?

[Tone Deft]

oh man, don't get into an argument with Angstrom.

[Johnisfaster]

I'm not arguing, just discussing. My opinion is just my opinion.

[Angstrom]

I see the argument you're trying to make there but VU meters on a mixer are a selling point, but add them to the apc40 and do you really think they would sell XX more units dispite the slightly higher price tag?

I think you've got me wrong, this thread is about my desire for a more minimal APC, note the image of one without any mixer. IE : no mixer.

Imagine that you already own some kind of midi-mixer device. Now, all you need is a clip trigger device, and lo and behold Ableton releases one, hooray! But, it also has a mixer attached, but not as good for you as the one you own, which you picked out especially as appropriate to the way you work.

You see my point?
that they didn't need to include a mixer to sell this thing. The clip matrix is the selling point.
Most electronic musicians have some kind of midi-mixer solution, but hardly anyone has a clip matrix device (unless they own a monome).

They could have sold a clip trigger device on its own quite easily and people would have just paired it with their existing BCF/ Novation thing / Mackie device / etc.

Beats Me mentioned a 'modular' version. Think of my suggestion as a modular version.
The clip Matrix is by Ableton/Akai
the mixer is by ... whoever you prefer!

[Johnisfaster]

I feel you on that, I'd imagine in the future we'll see quite a few variations of the apc come out one of which will probably be somewhat like the one you photoshopped.

I welcome the faders though, especially when you consider they don't have to be mixer faders. I've been wanting to buy a fader controller for a long time and this takes care of that urge.

but yeah, I think what they are trying to do here is become THEE live controller, like you'll see the apc-40 on stage with nothing else and people will think "thats THEE controller" ya know?

[Android Bishop]

I think the problem here is that we aren't taking the macro economics of this proposal into account.

To sell a separate unit with a different layout, they'd have to manufacture a completely different line of products , which would split up the sales between the two of them and potentially hurt the bottom line if it doesn't offset the costs of production or distribution or whatever. It probably costs a lot more to sell different versions of the same unit.

[SubFunk]

I think the problem here is that we aren't taking the macro economics of this proposal into account.

To sell a separate unit with a different layout, they'd have to manufacture a completely different line of products , which would split up the sales between the two of them and potentially hurt the bottom line if it doesn't offset the costs of production or distribution or whatever. It probably costs a lot more to sell different versions of the same unit.

might be... i am still in faver of the angstrom nano version... over the normal one...
or maybe you are wrong...?

[Johnisfaster]

What he said.

Usually in the controller market they try to make machines that make everyone a little happy and no one 100% happy, that way they can sell the same machine to everyone and next year they still have room to say "hey heres the new thing that's gonna change your life"
say they sold 10,000 apc-40's, but if they make 10 different kinds of the apc-40 and they only sold 1000 of each kind they are just shooting themselves in the foot ya know?

[Angstrom]

I think the problem here is that we aren't taking the macro economics of this proposal into account.

To sell a separate unit with a different layout, they'd have to manufacture a completely different line of products , which would split up the sales between the two of them and potentially hurt the bottom line if it doesn't offset the costs of production or distribution or whatever. It probably costs a lot more to sell different versions of the same unit.

I assume this one will be a roaring success and if that's the case then it would not be too big a deal to release some variants in 18 months time.
I think of what Novation did. The initial product was a success and then they release lots of very slightly different ones.
The innards are all still pretty much the same, it's just a different box.

IE - they released this:


then just disconnected the keyboard and put it in a smaller case


and then put it in a bigger case


once the original development costs are covered (for the tooling etc) then the variants are much less expensive to manufacture.