Ableton Forum

necho wrote:

sijarvis wrote:

necho wrote:I've left several jobs where I've been perfectly happy.

I'm curious as to why you would leave a job you were happy with.

I wanted to help my friend set up his business, since you asked.


On a different occasion, my girlfriend got a job in a different city and I followed her.

To help your friend set up a business is quite an odd reason. He must have been a good friend or he was rich enough to pay you for what you would have earned in your job.

Moving away with a partner is understandable but this isn't the case with bitwig. They are still in Berlin. I am happy with the answer that they won start up funds though.

The worst thing about bitwig is that their name isn't particulary inspiring. Ableton are able but bitwig wear hair pieces. They'd better have some damn good applications coming our way!

sijarvis wrote:
The worst thing about bitwig is that their name isn't particulary inspiring. Ableton are able but bitwig wear hair pieces. They'd better have some damn good applications coming our way!

si si, jarvis.

i just wanna see what bitwig does.

ableton is rock solid as far as i can tell, beyond the stress i put on it with my programs/stupidity.

sijarvis wrote:i've recently been alerted to the departure of some of the Ableton coders who have left the company and started off on their own....namely the guys at http://www.bitwig.com.

After the release of Live 8 I made a post asking someone from Ableton to say something firm about their bug fix plans, as i'm convinced they rushed its release and having read various posts in these forums, i'm still not convinced it's stable enough.

So does anyone know anything about the bitwig coders and how fundamental were they in the company and making the software work properly.

Nobody leaves a job unless they are made unhappy. This is just a guess but I take it they weren't given the appreciation (or remuneration) they felt their jobs deserved, or they wanted to implement things in a way that was disageeable to the people who run Ableton.

Either way, I am concerned for the future of Live, I love the program but won't be upgrading until I know more. If they've allowed their best coders to walk out the door, i'll be quite honest and say i'm interested in what bitwig have planned as Ableton may never stabilise Live and bitwig may have better ideas they didn't want to hand over to a company that didn't value them enough.

So if anyone here knows any facts in regards to the loss of these employees, I would greatly appreciate their sharing them with this community.

There are many people who have joined and left Ableton over the past 10 years. That's the way it goes in a company. People come, people go. The Bitwig guys had a great idea and wanted to set up their own business, that's why they left. They were great coders, so it is a loss indeed, but we have to accept it. Not sure why you are so paranoid about this, though.

[nis] wrote: Not sure why you are so paranoid about this, though.

Any "paranoia" comes from reading posts in other forums which claim that they were fundamental in stabilising Live.

You'll probably remember me from a thread I started when 8 was released. I was upset that the beta testing was still in full swing and had obviously not stabilised your software, yet you released it anyway.

It then came to my attention that this was done so because you had pre-arranged stalls at various trade shows, so rather than delay the release, you went ahead with the shows.

To this day, I don't want to upgrade my license as having read the forums, there are still too many bugs with Vista for me to feel it worthwhile. Yes, I know you offer a 2 week fully functioning trial but what's the point in that if it's not working for me. Do I get another 2 weeks trial when you put out your next bugfix update? and another 2 weeks when that one doesn't work for me? This is beta testing stuff and your software would be in a more advanced state of repair had the real beta carried on for longer.

So I feel the departure of 4 great coders is enough to induce feelings of worry in me. You may view it as paranoia but as a user, it's a valid concern.

Please don't do the same for Live 9, else your reputation won't live up to the anger of your customer base. I mean this most sincerely. You yourself may end up having to get a job coding someone elses software if it's as poorly implemented as Live 8 was on release.

You can destroy your reputation far easier than you made it.

sijarvis wrote:Any "paranoia" comes from reading posts in other forums which claim that they were fundamental in stabilising Live.

Links?

8O wrote:

sijarvis wrote:Any "paranoia" comes from reading posts in other forums which claim that they were fundamental in stabilising Live.

Links?

search for yourself.

I believe the one i'm talking about came from the props forum.

Anyway, it's not who said what that's the key, it's whether the Bitwig coders were that good or not. They obviously believe in their coding skills enough to go it alone and if they've won a competition to fund their going solo, they must be pretty damn good.

sijarvis wrote:search for yourself.

I believe the one i'm talking about came from the props forum.

Anyway, it's not who said what that's the key, it's whether the Bitwig coders were that good or not. They obviously believe in their coding skills enough to go it alone and if they've won a competition to fund their going solo, they must be pretty damn good.

C'mon, back it up with your links, it's pretty much the basis of your whole rant.

Edit:

sijarvis wrote:...and if they've won a competition to fund their going solo, they must be pretty damn good.

From my experience, this has nothing to do with your programming skills and all to do with a) your business plan, and b) your connections.

8O wrote: C'mon, back it up with your links, it's pretty much the basis of your whole rant.

Far from it. The basis of my rant is the instability of Live 8 on release. Do a search in these forums if you can't recall the incredibly fed up posts during that time.

Sure, it's improved no end, though i'm still not happy it's there for Vista users.

I hope you're having great fun post beta testing it for them. You must feel special having paid for the privelege. I really wish i'd coffed up the money to do that too!

God save the queen!

8O wrote: From my experience, this has nothing to do with your programming skills and all to do with a) your business plan, and b) your connections.

So why aren't you going it alone with a succesful business plan and a bank full of free money?

sijarvis wrote:

8O wrote: From my experience, this has nothing to do with your programming skills and all to do with a) your business plan, and b) your connections.

So why aren't you going it alone with a succesful business plan and a bank full of free money?

Er... I am.

sijarvis wrote:Any "paranoia" comes from reading posts in other forums which claim that they were fundamental in stabilising Live.

Aaaaannnyway, enough about me Can you back up this statement with some links or not?

check ....and .... MATE...!

sijarvis wrote:

[nis] wrote: Not sure why you are so paranoid about this, though.

Any "paranoia" comes from reading posts in other forums which claim that they were fundamental in stabilising Live.

Hmm, although the guys who left are certainly skillful, your comments are a bit sweeping in assigning them globalized super-powers!
I think the reality is more nuanced; a multi-national company with lots and lots of people involved in 'stabilizing Live'. I could reel off a big list of people who come to mind who are directly involved in 'stabilising' the app, and many of them have been there a long time. The idea the the 4 guys now at Bitwig were some kind of fundamental stabliser force is just weird.For example consider that Claes was only at Ableton since early 2008.

Anyway - I'm sure we are all looking forward to what Bitwig do, and I'm sure Ableton will miss them. But people do leave jobs for non-melodramatic reasons. These are creative types, so of course they are going to have fresh ideas of their own and want to pursue them.
That sounds like fun to me!

Angstrom wrote: people do leave jobs for non-melodramatic reasons. These are creative types, so of course they are going to have fresh ideas of their own and want to pursue them.
That sounds like fun to me!

Actually, Claes has posted that he had to leave Ableton. I can't find the actual post but here's a link mentioning it, at the bottom of the page, claes posts a comment confirming it.... http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3505313

I can't find any comments in regards to the other coders, though if one of them had to leave, then it's quite possible the others were put under the same pressure.