Ableton Forum

dom wrote:disagreed:

http://www.pianofundamentals.com/book/en/1.IV.4


cheers,
dom

as a science and math geek, I cannot recommend this article enough. SOOO thankful you posted it! great read

Thanks for the the information, interesting.

I'd still love to hear an update as to how things are coming along behind the scenes tho.

swishniak wrote:

slow riot wrote: RE: Emissary. I think you have missed the point really with Max. It's about being able to develop personal systems that work for you and being able to work with them in extremely unique and low level ways. And also to find new methods in composition and stuff from developing these extremely personalised systems. If you're looking for wow factor there are plenty of interesting vsts around. I dunno, maybe you can lurk and download ineresting patches that other people have made in maxforlive, but for me I'd like to dig deeper.

+1
that point that hes missing is EXACTLY the point of M4L. which is why im looking forward to getting my paws on it.

Having used max/msp in uni i know what its capable of, i did enjoy my time with it. 6 or 7 years ago we didnt have as many free vsts and so there was much more room to build new interesting things, but now all the lower branches have been picked clean and pretty much anything i can think of has been done or i can do in either live or reason (barring some kind of interactive multimedia, which is one reason why i may invest in M4L). I'm not dissing it, i just cant think of anything to make in it anymore which would result in good listenable music.

http://vimeo.com/6249995

Nice little preview by Christopher Willits on XLR8RTV

looks pretty cool!

beats me wrote:

ethios4 wrote:
HOLY SHIT, is this some sort of gambling application, with racetrack bets and slot machines?

There used to be a time when music was about playing an instrument or coming up with a catchy tune. This looks like bullshit.

ummm... write any catchy tunes or play an instrument lately?

I totally don't understand people that run from learning something new.

"damnit, I need something that will convert notes to CC values... oh, I'll make a max patch." simple as that.

I fully recognise the "Arrgh, it's just getting further away from playing an instrument" attitude to this kind of thing, I kind of felt that way myself when MFL was first announced but I also remember feeling immensely threatened when somebody first showed me their Atari ST based studio setup in the 80s, I was just a guitar player back then and it was all too much to take in. I recently treated myself to a lovely Taylor 214 acoustic guitar (with no electrics at all) and I'm thoroughly enjoying teaching myself fingerstyle at the moment so my fears in the 80s of my musicianship dying away were totally unfounded.

I'm finding myself wishing I had some tools that are completely unique to me, some things that let me create music in a more algorithmic way, a bit like adding to the things that follow actions can do, I'm willing to take the time to learn something new in order to realise this. I'm really looking forward to giving MFL a good try and I'm hoping that the tutorials and some more experienced Max people might help me get some good results along these lines.

Again, Abes, how close are we to getting our grubbly mitts on MFL?

Tone Deft wrote:

beats me wrote:

ethios4 wrote:
HOLY SHIT, is this some sort of gambling application, with racetrack bets and slot machines?

There used to be a time when music was about playing an instrument or coming up with a catchy tune. This looks like bullshit.

ummm... write any catchy tunes or play an instrument lately?

I totally don't understand people that run from learning something new.

"damnit, I need something that will convert notes to CC values... oh, I'll make a max patch." simple as that.

M4L surely has it's place among music tools and to some extent I'm probably being a hypocrite here because God knows I use tools that didn't exist in computers a few years ago that instead needed actual creativity or a group of people to pull off, but a lot of where things are heading seems to be "how can I get the computer to do everything for me while I sit back, drink a beer, and watch it go?"

I predict that very soon iTunes will be able to do full on DJ mixes on it's own with your library complete with beat matched crossfades and intelligent random EQ kills, build ups, and eventually effects.

beats me wrote:a lot of where things are heading seems to be "how can I get the computer to do everything for me while I sit back, drink a beer, and watch it go?"

That actually does interest me, to a point, definitely not for creating instant DJ mixes tho. Come to think of it, why would that be bad? I think it'd be great if you could get an instant Tiesto patch, just bung in a handful of choonz, hit the "super epic" setting and wander off with yer glowsticks into the throbbing hoards after necking two or three disco biscuits. Erm, don't we already have that, in a way? Oh yes. I forgot, there'd be nobody behind the decks to raise their hands in glory or wave a record in the air then collect a fat paycheque before shmoozing off to the vip room for a blowjob.

beats me wrote:
M4L surely has it's place among music tools and to some extent I'm probably being a hypocrite here because God knows I use tools that didn't exist in computers a few years ago that instead needed actual creativity or a group of people to pull off, but a lot of where things are heading seems to be "how can I get the computer to do everything for me while I sit back, drink a beer, and watch it go?"

I predict that very soon iTunes will be able to do full on DJ mixes on it's own with your library complete with beat matched crossfades and intelligent random EQ kills, build ups, and eventually effects.

Its the nature of technology and evolution in general. As certain tasks become more automated, the amount you do creatively expands into broader realms. Its a good thing.

I.E. one of my favorite forms of art are winamp visualizations. however, they are not created by somebody animating some abstract art, they are created by someone programming an algorithm that generates art in response to the music. Its just a whole new way of making something beautiful and complex. one of the reasons we love Live is because it allows us to do beautifully complex things without putting as much energy and work into it. Its fundamentally the same thing

Another NYC-based Max/Live user very interested in Max for Live.

I'm actually doing fairly well without it. I just send MIDI through Rewire between the two.

If Ableton/Cycling were smart, they'd make M4L quite cheap - under the theory that either Ableton or Cycling 74 is likely to get a new sale of their main product with it - but also under the theory that developers make products that then attract more users to your platform. If Ableton/Max charged a license fee for products developed using M4L, that might not be unreasonable either!

Martyn wrote:

beats me wrote:a lot of where things are heading seems to be "how can I get the computer to do everything for me while I sit back, drink a beer, and watch it go?"

That actually does interest me, to a point, definitely not for creating instant DJ mixes tho. Come to think of it, why would that be bad? I think it'd be great if you could get an instant Tiesto patch, just bung in a handful of choonz, hit the "super epic" setting and wander off with yer glowsticks into the throbbing hoards after necking two or three disco biscuits. Erm, don't we already have that, in a way? Oh yes. I forgot, there'd be nobody behind the decks to raise their hands in glory or wave a record in the air then collect a fat paycheque before shmoozing off to the vip room for a blowjob.

That's fine and dandy (and easy) to say towards DJs but I'm saying your job/creativity is next on the chopping block. This may not concern or bother some people and I understand that but some day Script #5 is going to write songs just as good as yours, probably with better production.

M4L is really exciting to me, but damn I know it's going to be time consuming to learn....so much so that I may end up not getting it just because of the full-on commitment. Plus, what really excites me is building custom live performance setups, and I'm rather turned off from live performance right now. Bleh.

beats me wrote:

Martyn wrote:

beats me wrote:a lot of where things are heading seems to be "how can I get the computer to do everything for me while I sit back, drink a beer, and watch it go?"

That actually does interest me, to a point, definitely not for creating instant DJ mixes tho. Come to think of it, why would that be bad? I think it'd be great if you could get an instant Tiesto patch, just bung in a handful of choonz, hit the "super epic" setting and wander off with yer glowsticks into the throbbing hoards after necking two or three disco biscuits. Erm, don't we already have that, in a way? Oh yes. I forgot, there'd be nobody behind the decks to raise their hands in glory or wave a record in the air then collect a fat paycheque before shmoozing off to the vip room for a blowjob.

That's fine and dandy (and easy) to say towards DJs but I'm saying your job/creativity is next on the chopping block. This may not concern or bother some people and I understand that but some day Script #5 is going to write songs just as good as yours, probably with better production.

right and MY point is when it gets to that point the nature of creative expression will be to design a better script. We're just expanding the scope of what our product does, its the nature of all evolution

beats me wrote:

ethios4 wrote:
HOLY SHIT, is this some sort of gambling application, with racetrack bets and slot machines?

There used to be a time when music was about playing an instrument or coming up with a catchy tune. This looks like bullshit.

Seriously though, you seem to be suggesting that the developers who write the code and design an application like Ableton are somehow less creative than the "musicians" who use Live to tweak other peoples' music (or even musicians who actually play instruments like myself, but still depend on the massive advantages provided by an application like Ableton).

In reality, any pursuit can be approached passionately and creatively, producing wonder and innovation. Of course by that same token, things like music, programming, architecture, etc. can be performed in a formulaic, rote fashion that is predictable and boring. But don't blame the tools or the media.

An interviewer once asked Miles Davis in the 70s if he thought the use electric instruments would ruin music. "No", he replied tersely, "BAD music will ruin music".

Miles' producer in the 70s, Teo Macero, used to edit and "remix" Miles' sessions into coherent tracks, often by painstakingly physically splicing tape together (cf, Bitches Brew, Jack Johnson, Big Fun, etc.). I highly doubt if you told him back then what one would one day be able to do with something like Max for Live that he would call that "bullshit".

Ok, end of rant. Sorry, I guess that just struck a nerve

beats me wrote:That's fine and dandy (and easy) to say towards DJs but I'm saying your job/creativity is next on the chopping block. This may not concern or bother some people and I understand that but some day Script #5 is going to write songs just as good as yours, probably with better production.

I've enjoyed many a good night out thanks to good DJs so I'm not knocking that, just joking around really. My point is that my creativity will just be enhanced, my ability and enthusiasm for playing music with my bare hands has, until now only increased as a result of technology, I've no reason to expect otherwise.

Oh, and if there really could be something to help my production sound better, bring it on!