Ableton Forum

[nis] wrote:
Yes, overloading the memory will lead to sluggishness and eventually freezes or crashes Live. Too many devices and also too many clips in a set are often the cause of a high RAM load.

Best,
n.

Isnt this to be considered as a bug because other aplications inclusive earlier versions of live dont have this problem?
Is it not possible to limit the max memory usage of live 8 to prevent crashes?

because ther is no reload while play functionality in live especially stage projekts tend to be the biggest...
so beeing on stage with ableton live 8 has the highest likeliness for ram related crashes?

[nis] wrote:3Phase, you seem to be experiencing a bug with Live's multiprocessor handling of MIDI data which occurs on some Macs. Repairing permissions will not help at all. Turn off the multiprocessor support in the CPU preferences pane and check if that helps. There will be a fix available soon.

Regards,
Nico

ups..just have seen this...

ok..thnx.. i will try that.. but wouldnt this slow down the program extermly? ..but i will try later..
What do you mean with some macs? is it known which models are affected?
And is the fix for certain? seems that i have much more gigs upcoming to the end of the year than i´ve expected...

is there any iea how soon will be soon?
regards,
sven

3phase wrote:Isnt this to be considered as a bug

Which one? The RAM issue? Overloading the RAM is usually a user error. It would be a bug if Live would fill up the RAM due to a memory leak or if it uses more RAM than necessary. I am currently not aware of such problems.

3phase wrote:because other aplications inclusive earlier versions of live dont have this problem?

Overloading the RAM will lead to the exact same result in any Live version.

3phase wrote:Is it not possible to limit the max memory usage of live 8 to prevent crashes?

No. This was possible in OS 9, but not in OS X.

3phase wrote:because ther is no reload while play functionality in live aspecially stage projekts tend to be the biggest...
sop beeing on stage with ableton live 8 has the highest likelinessfor ram related crashes?

It only becomes critical if you have an extreme amount of clips in a set (> 1000), and use a unrealistic amount of instruments / effects.

3phase wrote: ok..thnx.. i will try that.. but wouldnt this slow down the program extermly? ..but i will try later..

Yes, it will only run on 1 CPU core then.

is it known which models are affected?

No.

And is the fix for certain?

Yes. We already have a fix. We'll release a new update which includes this fix asap.

Best,
n.

Thanx
I am very happy to have finaly a confirmation that there is a problem..

its not helpfullwhen ableton officials claim that there are non and point it to user karma ...


Is it possible that the ram issue and the midi problem work hand in hand?
i never have 1000 clips... but

On my first live 8 on stage test i had my first ableton live crash on stage..and ther was no midi clips involved because i had the midi as a problem source in mind allready..

or is just sending the clock enough to do the crashing?

but i was sending the clock for days without a crash and as soon i get busy..and the projekt grows the system gets unstable...

is there a way to check if ram issues are involved?

however.. lately i do a lot with midi again..so my actual crashes are probably the midi thing.

3phase wrote:Thanx
I am very happy to have finaly a confirmation that there is a problem..

its not helpfullwhen ableton officials claim that there are non and point it to user karma ...

I don't want to get into another debate with you, but we have never claimed that there are no problems in Live and I might add that it is not very helpful for us either if users with problems don't cooperate with us. Whilst you were moaning on the forums and refused to answer the questions of my colleagues, we've been in touch with another (very helpful) user who experienced the exact same problem as you do. He sent us an event recording of a beta version and answered all questions that we needed to narrow down the problem, so we managed to reproduce these crashes here, found the cause and fixed it. Perfect. That having said, I can understand the frustration that arises when your software crashes, esp. when it crashes on stage.

3phase wrote:Is it possible that the ram issue and the midi problem work hand in hand?

No.

3phase wrote: i never have 1000 clips... but

On my first live 8 on stage test i had my first ableton live crash on stage..and ther was no midi clips involved because i had the midi as a problem source in mind allready..

or is just sending the clock enough to do the crashing?

but i was sending the clock for days without a crash and as soon i get busy..and the projekt grows the system gets unstable...

is there a way to check if ram issues are involved?

however.. lately i do a lot with midi again..so my actual crashes are probably the midi thing.

Well, I looked again into the crashlogs you sent a while ago and they are containing the exact same events as you would get with the MIDI crash. That's all I can say at the moment. Turn off the multiprocessor support (at least until we release the next update) and check if that works fine for you. Not an ideal solution, I know, but might be better then frequent crashes.

Best,
n.

No crashes hare on both Macs I own (look at signature).
Only Live Devices plus Zebra.
Maybe I'm not pushing it hard.
I record and shape songs in Session view and then record in Arrangement the final structure.
Heavy usage begins there (12-20) tracks and a lot of mixer / plug-in automation.
I'm doing the same I did in Live 7, with no problem.

- Hope this helps
- Best
- Pasha

[nis] wrote:

1ino1eum wrote:I can use Live for 8 hours straight juste playing with the APC and samples.

I can make Live crash in 5 minutes, like just tonight (see my recent Subject in General), I just need to make Live use all my macbook memory (2go), then where there is no more memory, it will just slwodoan the whole computer and finaly freeze and eventualy crash.

I can use all my memory buy loading few instances of samplers by using "slice to midi track". 100% crash guarantee. I just need to be carefull to not use all my 2go and everything should be fine.

Yes, overloading the memory will lead to sluggishness and eventually freezes or crashes Live. Too many devices and also too many clips in a set are often the cause of a high RAM load.

Best,
n.

Thanks Nis,

So, can you confirm that if I have 4go or 6, ro 8, etc ... I can then load more devices or more clips without crashing Live?
What is the maximum of RAM that Live can use ? Is there a limit on Leopard, on Snow Leopard, or on windows ?
I though that on a 32bits system, the limit allowed to an application was 2go. Is that true? What about Leopard and snow leopard?

Thank you.

1ino1eum wrote:Thanks Nis,

So, can you confirm that if I have 4go or 6, ro 8, etc ... I can then load more devices or more clips without crashing Live?
What is the maximum of RAM that Live can use ? Is there a limit on Leopard, on Snow Leopard, or on windows ?
I though that on a 32bits system, the limit allowed to an application was 2go. Is that true? What about Leopard and snow leopard?

Thank you.

Live is a 32-bit application. The maximum address space of 32-bit applications is 4 GB. Mac OS X (10.4 Tiger or higher) can make use of the full address space (4 GB). Needless to say, it can only address 4 GB to an application if there is enough RAM installed to feed the OS itself, all hardware drivers, background tasks, etc.

Windows systems are a bit different. 32-bit Windows systems can only address max. 2 GB to an application. There is a way to increase that to 3 GB (google the so called "/3GB switch" for more info). 64-bit versions of Windows can use the full address space of 32-bit apps (4 GB - just like on OS X).

Best,
Nico

since 8.0.5 it's pretty much fine, only issue i have now sometimes is that ableton does not like if i don't use it for a while, but it's active and i put the comp to sleep during that time a few times, it will hang.

did not ever happened before 8.0.5, thou...

otherwise it's really being fine... so far.

EDIT: ahhh... does that might have also something to do with the RAM overload... mentioned here?

I think your poll needs to call out OSX version.

I rarely have any problems with Live 8 but I am still on Tiger. Other friends I have with the same hardware on Leopard or Snow Leopard have a much different experience.

SubFunk wrote:since 8.0.5 it's pretty much fine, only issue i have now sometimes is that ableton does not like if i don't use it for a while, but it's active and i put the comp to sleep during that time a few times, it will hang.

I have this problem a lot with Live. I would often leave Live open and put the computer to sleep. Live would then hang and overload the CPU. It has done the same thing even if Live was in a closed state prior to OS X sleeping. Once I would open Live.....crash.

This same application hang happened with Excel one time so I don't know if the were directly related to possible issue with OS X or maybe Live caused the problem with Excel crashing because it was sucking the life out of my machine.

jimyson wrote:

SubFunk wrote:since 8.0.5 it's pretty much fine, only issue i have now sometimes is that ableton does not like if i don't use it for a while, but it's active and i put the comp to sleep during that time a few times, it will hang.

I have this problem a lot with Live. I would often leave Live open and put the computer to sleep. Live would then hang and overload the CPU. It has done the same thing even if Live was in a closed state prior to OS X sleeping. Once I would open Live.....crash.

This same application hang happened with Excel one time so I don't know if the were directly related to possible issue with OS X or maybe Live caused the problem with Excel crashing because it was sucking the life out of my machine.

i never ever had this problem before and i always since i have computers put my machine to sleep, i hardly ever switch it off.

only with Live and only since 8.0.5 i have that problem.

[nis] wrote:

3phase wrote:Thanx
I am very happy to have finaly a confirmation that there is a problem..

its not helpfullwhen ableton officials claim that there are non and point it to user karma ...

I don't want to get into another debate with you, but we have never claimed that there are no problems in Live and I might add that it is not very helpful for us either if users with problems don't cooperate with us. Whilst you were moaning on the forums and refused to answer the questions of my colleagues, we've been in touch with another (very helpful) user who experienced the exact same problem as you do. He sent us an event recording of a beta version and answered all questions that we needed to narrow down the problem, so we managed to reproduce these crashes here, found the cause and fixed it. Perfect. That having said, I can understand the frustration that arises when your software crashes, esp. when it crashes on stage.

3phase wrote:Is it possible that the ram issue and the midi problem work hand in hand?

No.

3phase wrote: i never have 1000 clips... but

On my first live 8 on stage test i had my first ableton live crash on stage..and ther was no midi clips involved because i had the midi as a problem source in mind allready..

or is just sending the clock enough to do the crashing?

but i was sending the clock for days without a crash and as soon i get busy..and the projekt grows the system gets unstable...

is there a way to check if ram issues are involved?

however.. lately i do a lot with midi again..so my actual crashes are probably the midi thing.

Well, I looked again into the crashlogs you sent a while ago and they are containing the exact same events as you would get with the MIDI crash. That's all I can say at the moment. Turn off the multiprocessor support (at least until we release the next update) and check if that works fine for you. Not an ideal solution, I know, but might be better then frequent crashes.

Best,
n.

First.. An ableton ofiical claimed that there are only probles with live 8 with 3rd party plugs that i runs perfect without..
And i answerd your requests and explained my setup... but you put down the support case anyway because i used critical words... and ..to tell you the truth...
i still have to use them..Ableton is really not the company i would be proud of. you maybe are..
But seeing the development in the last years.from a brilliant ingenuity into a big mess... and out of it again..
But with lots of pain.. Live 4 Live 5 Live 6 .all crap... you had to learn to do the midi from ground zero...
And it still sucks...

And the same problem as we have now we had in the past.. Ableton hiding the truth..
major bugs not even apearing in the changelogs..

we was ther..and i hoped Ableton became better...
At least from a moral point. an ableton official said that this wont hapem again
but..



as we know now thats not true and when you look at the poll its pretty shocking how many users have problems without any notion of the problem in public..

Thats really bad hiding under the carpet politics..



How is it possible that so many people have problems and nobody informs the public about the muti processor bug?

since when do you know that?

since 3 days? if longer shame on you..


watch out for digidesign and ssl..they inform you about bugs before you even know them...

and btw..

live 8 is crashing when changing the cpu setting.. in booth directions...
and with a singel cpu the complex pro ist doing even more extrem fluctuations in tempo..even when ableton live is even with one cpu well below the 50%. on my actual projekts

you should look into the implementation... maybe its involved in the crashszenarios aswell

no crashes on live 8 for me since it came out of beta...
I hardly use any 3rd party plugs any more(i can count them on one hand) as they are most of the problem... and I definitely wouldn't use them during a live set.

a few hairy moments using the m4l beta but that goes without saying.


edit: and i used the 8.1b3 during a 4hr live set with 100 tracks left and right and 80 tracks down (session view)
15 midi tracks with ableton instruments, 5 max instruments, 10 ableton fx & 4 max fx...
on my macbook pro 2.16 with 4gb ram and a 7200rpm hdd running 2 fire wire sound cards aggregated into a desk..

and the closest thing I had to a crash is when a punter got to close to my apc...