Ableton Forum

mike@TrackTeam Audio wrote:Live needs a good user at the helm, thats it.

spot on bruh!....spot on. LMAO!

What features are missing ??

Audio editing - Surround/Multichannel Audio - Scoring - Key Commands / Macros - Bezier Curves (for automation) -
more file import and export options (i.e. acid .wav, broadcast wave, mp3 import, FLAC, OMF etc) - Drum replacement - Pitch Correction - Logical Editor for MIDI - VST Expression - Better support of dual monitors - offline processing with history and editable redo at any stage - audio statistics analysis.

Then again - Do you really want Live to just become a.n. other DAW with run of the mill features, or do you prefer to have most of the basic functionality of a DAW with lots of extra creative features for Live performance and studio production?

We did get sidechaining, MIDI slice to audio, *basic* crossfades on the same audio track, group tracks, and mastering tools such as Limiter and Multiband Dynamics in the last couple of releases giving it more traditional DAW functionality. I love Live 7 Suite and Cubase 5 for different reasons. Live has plenty of good original stuff going for it which is missing in other DAWS too - it works both ways.

Android Bishop wrote:the main thing live is missing is stability and cpu efficiency

+1 .. speed

mike@TrackTeam Audio wrote:Live needs a good user at the helm, thats it.

That applies to every DAW. Or anything in life actually. I see what you mean but for some things the software either has the capabilities a given task requires or it doesn't. Track comping is a good example of this, it's just not possible in Live yet it's so basic to recording audio performances. Audio editing is pretty basic also. Live did add group tracks this year.

luddy wrote:Not far at all from being able to compete with Logic, PT, etc. The question is, is it worth closing the gap if it means making Live more complex or compromising on something that's really fundamental to its appeal? -Luddy

When does adding features begin to change what Live is? The question Luddy asks above about competing with Logic and PT without losing it's uniqueness is really important. Not in terms of expanding workflow (such as recording automation into clips/session view) or improving overall sound quality but in many ways this is the main issue Ableton faces over the coming years. It's never going to have the bundled plugins Logic does, it's never going to sound as good as a $10,000 Pro Tools HD rig recording multiple audio tracks. But then again, Live isn't just for live performance anymore either. So what is it? Well, we all know what it is. It's the best thing since sliced bread. But what is it going to be? That's the tricky part.

leedsquietman wrote:What features are missing ??

Audio editing - Surround/Multichannel Audio - Scoring - Key Commands / Macros - Bezier Curves (for automation) -
more file import and export options (i.e. acid .wav, broadcast wave, mp3 import, FLAC, OMF etc) - Drum replacement - Pitch Correction - Logical Editor for MIDI - VST Expression - Better support of dual monitors - offline processing with history and editable redo at any stage - audio statistics analysis.

Then again - Do you really want Live to just become a.n. other DAW with run of the mill features, or do you prefer to have most of the basic functionality of a DAW with lots of extra creative features for Live performance and studio production?

We did get sidechaining, MIDI slice to audio, *basic* crossfades on the same audio track, group tracks, and mastering tools such as Limiter and Multiband Dynamics in the last couple of releases giving it more traditional DAW functionality. I love Live 7 Suite and Cubase 5 for different reasons. Live has plenty of good original stuff going for it which is missing in other DAWS too - it works both ways.

I use Ableton as my main DAW. Tracking, Editing, Mixing, and Mastering. Live's instruments and effects suck. I will admit. But I use third party plug ins anyway so that doesn't bother me. I use Pro Tools only when some one sends me sessions to mix, but if i'm tracking i use Ableton all the way. I hate electronic music and i know that ableton is mostly based around this but the workflow in ableton is top notch. I love it. I do wish for surround editing. That would be nice. Everything I record is rock, metal, country and hip-hop. You can check out the tracks i've engineered and produced. Most of the songs go to radio and i do commercial jingles as well. Completely in Ableton.

shatzer wrote:

I use Ableton as my main DAW. Tracking, Editing, Mixing, and Mastering. Live's instruments and effects suck. I will admit. But I use third party plug ins anyway so that doesn't bother me. .

Do they? Not in my experience. I've got pretty decent ears - in my day I've owned some top tier equipment (played with Buchlas and Serge modular systems, started track writing in a fully analog enviroment: e.g. pro-1, arp odyssey, sh101, etc). Granted I haven't played with Live in a while but they sounded better than what Cubase came bundled with (well, the effex) and the sound samples for the synths sound good off Ableton.com (especially Operator, Tension and Collision -Electronic isn't too bad either, but not really that sexy either).

I guess it's natural for one to slag off that which they see on a day-to-day basis.. just remember that all this gear is WAY more powerful than the stuff used for the Richard D. James album (mostly Super Collider there).

*eDit: Ok.. I just went back and relistened to Operator.. It's not bad, especially for as CPU light I imagine it is, but I'd probably turn to FM8, my TX81Z or pick up a cheap FSR1.

lives instruments and effects are the best around...


i know its a specialized program and all that, but most people would like everything to be included in one program and not have to rewire and spend another 500 buckeroos

the upgrades that could make it a "full featured" daw are pretty simple, they have been mentioned, and i wouldn't be surprised if live 9 tackles those simple improvements

automation curves (or at least the illusion of them, you wouldn't hear the stepping anyway)

multi-monitor support

some sort of addition to implement destructive editing


but legato mode makes it all worth while anyway so it wont matter if they do those things or not

leedsquietman wrote:What features are missing ??

Audio editing - Surround/Multichannel Audio - Scoring - Key Commands / Macros - Bezier Curves (for automation) -
more file import and export options (i.e. acid .wav, broadcast wave, mp3 import, FLAC, OMF etc) - Drum replacement - Pitch Correction - Logical Editor for MIDI - VST Expression - Better support of dual monitors - offline processing with history and editable redo at any stage - audio statistics analysis.

Then again - Do you really want Live to just become a.n. other DAW with run of the mill features, or do you prefer to have most of the basic functionality of a DAW with lots of extra creative features for Live performance and studio production?

We did get sidechaining, MIDI slice to audio, *basic* crossfades on the same audio track, group tracks, and mastering tools such as Limiter and Multiband Dynamics in the last couple of releases giving it more traditional DAW functionality. I love Live 7 Suite and Cubase 5 for different reasons. Live has plenty of good original stuff going for it which is missing in other DAWS too - it works both ways.

It never ceases to amaze me how few people list Automation at the top of the list

even experienced dudes like you Leeds! It makes me feel like I am just insane or a whingy fucker, but Automation in Live is diabolical. It really makes my life miserable on a daily basis.

I mean, there are things I like about it - it can sometimes be great to just hit record and have everything you do from that point recorded, but as soon as you want any more control than that you're screwed!! not only do we not have any kind of fundamental control like touch, latch,read write, but we can't even record the automation separately to clips.

I am holding out for Live 9 to finally address this - I know it must be nearing the top of the list, at least Ableton have said it is, but it's been pushed out of the way for this many versions for so many other things I'm starting to give up hope......

to me Automation is such a fundamental aspect of a DAW that it's the thing that lets Live down the most.

Anything that can be made up for in another program (like audio editing for example) can wait IMO - what can't wait is core aspects of the program that you require to use it properly. Automation is one of these.

automation automation AUTOMATION! (sorry I thought it was like "beetle juice" and it would appear if I said it 3 times)

alex.the.forge wrote:

leedsquietman wrote:What features are missing ??

Audio editing - Surround/Multichannel Audio - Scoring - Key Commands / Macros - Bezier Curves (for automation) -
more file import and export options (i.e. acid .wav, broadcast wave, mp3 import, FLAC, OMF etc) - Drum replacement - Pitch Correction - Logical Editor for MIDI - VST Expression - Better support of dual monitors - offline processing with history and editable redo at any stage - audio statistics analysis.

Then again - Do you really want Live to just become a.n. other DAW with run of the mill features, or do you prefer to have most of the basic functionality of a DAW with lots of extra creative features for Live performance and studio production?

We did get sidechaining, MIDI slice to audio, *basic* crossfades on the same audio track, group tracks, and mastering tools such as Limiter and Multiband Dynamics in the last couple of releases giving it more traditional DAW functionality. I love Live 7 Suite and Cubase 5 for different reasons. Live has plenty of good original stuff going for it which is missing in other DAWS too - it works both ways.

It never ceases to amaze me how few people list Automation at the top of the list

even experienced dudes like you Leeds! It makes me feel like I am just insane or a whingy fucker, but Automation in Live is diabolical. It really makes my life miserable on a daily basis.

I mean, there are things I like about it - it can sometimes be great to just hit record and have everything you do from that point recorded, but as soon as you want any more control than that you're screwed!! not only do we not have any kind of fundamental control like touch, latch,read write, but we can't even record the automation separately to clips.

I am holding out for Live 9 to finally address this - I know it must be nearing the top of the list, at least Ableton have said it is, but it's been pushed out of the way for this many versions for so many other things I'm starting to give up hope......

to me Automation is such a fundamental aspect of a DAW that it's the thing that lets Live down the most.

Anything that can be made up for in another program (like audio editing for example) can wait IMO - what can't wait is core aspects of the program that you require to use it properly. Automation is one of these.

automation automation AUTOMATION! (sorry I thought it was like "beetle juice" and it would appear if I said it 3 times)

I'll second this request. Now that you have me tripping down memory lane, automation really was one of the weak points of my live experience in the past (friend's systems and demos).

I'm surprised recording automation to a clip doesn't exist.. in fact, I'm almost certain that it does.. doesn't it? I could swear I have the memory of playing around in session view triggering clips of only CC data arranged and routed to a specific external midi device..

mike@TrackTeam Audio wrote:Live needs a good user at the helm, thats it.

Well, once they marry it with Max you'll prolly be able to create your own DAW. Hopefully the more learned geeks around here will be able to spawn some freaky mutations.

alex.the.forge wrote:

leedsquietman wrote:What features are missing ??

Audio editing - Surround/Multichannel Audio - Scoring - Key Commands / Macros - Bezier Curves (for automation) -
more file import and export options (i.e. acid .wav, broadcast wave, mp3 import, FLAC, OMF etc) - Drum replacement - Pitch Correction - Logical Editor for MIDI - VST Expression - Better support of dual monitors - offline processing with history and editable redo at any stage - audio statistics analysis.

Then again - Do you really want Live to just become a.n. other DAW with run of the mill features, or do you prefer to have most of the basic functionality of a DAW with lots of extra creative features for Live performance and studio production?

We did get sidechaining, MIDI slice to audio, *basic* crossfades on the same audio track, group tracks, and mastering tools such as Limiter and Multiband Dynamics in the last couple of releases giving it more traditional DAW functionality. I love Live 7 Suite and Cubase 5 for different reasons. Live has plenty of good original stuff going for it which is missing in other DAWS too - it works both ways.

It never ceases to amaze me how few people list Automation at the top of the list

even experienced dudes like you Leeds! It makes me feel like I am just insane or a whingy fucker, but Automation in Live is diabolical. It really makes my life miserable on a daily basis.

I mean, there are things I like about it - it can sometimes be great to just hit record and have everything you do from that point recorded, but as soon as you want any more control than that you're screwed!! not only do we not have any kind of fundamental control like touch, latch,read write, but we can't even record the automation separately to clips.

I am holding out for Live 9 to finally address this - I know it must be nearing the top of the list, at least Ableton have said it is, but it's been pushed out of the way for this many versions for so many other things I'm starting to give up hope......

to me Automation is such a fundamental aspect of a DAW that it's the thing that lets Live down the most.

Anything that can be made up for in another program (like audio editing for example) can wait IMO - what can't wait is core aspects of the program that you require to use it properly. Automation is one of these.

automation automation AUTOMATION! (sorry I thought it was like "beetle juice" and it would appear if I said it 3 times)

Cheers for bringing this up I'm getting tired of writing about it +1.


@ jOop. dont get confused with automation and midi CC they are not the same.
Yes there is ye o'l workaround using extra tracks and virtual midi ports but its messy
(better now we have groups)

Yes, automation should be a priority.

Yep automation. Especially recording it into the session view. It took me a while to realise it wasn't part of the built in functionality, kept reading the manual to check I hadn't missed something. Using a midi bus completely wrecks the whole instant mapping thing and creating a midi handling device using max is going to be pretty hefty. The inability to record filtersweeps etc inside session view is probably live's most frustrating feature.... everything else is great totally great for live improvisation, building up looping structures, recording on the fly, creating sliced drum machines on the fly.... just don't try to record a macro knob. Still, I suppose you work with the tools you've got.

jOop. wrote:

arctic ranger wrote:dude...you gotta try the (fully functioning)demo...you should have a good idea after 14 days if its good for you.

Naturally that would be the best option. However, before I can do that I need to purchase a new MacBook Pro (2.53ghz, 4 gb ram, etc). I'm on a pre-Intel system.

That purchase won't occur till Jan, and even then it may be delayed if Apple announces the laptop quadcores (the tech is out there now but nobody knows when Apple will make the announcement). And even then I have to decide if I'm going to sign onto the Peace Corp (2 years, poor time to upgrade hardware). This all verges on TMI, but is my constructive way of saying "just answer the question."

Tarekith wrote:Audio editing, custom key commands

Well it seems Max for Live will allow for the latter. Perhaps even the former to a limited degree (but not enough probably).

Hey JoOp, what do you want to do with your DAW?

recording studio? (pro-tools seems to be standard)

scoring movie soundtracks? (logic seems to be the choice of many)

techno? (fruity loops and reason seem to be the choice of many, but also live)

experimental electronic music? (max, puredata, supercollider)

hiphop-beats ? (a mpc)

perform stuff? (ableton)

Everything? (ableton)