Ableton Forum

3phase wrote:

paraclude wrote: you fail to realize that a good portion of those that are looking forward to M4L are ones that just want to use patches made by Ableton or other users. i doubt that a large percentage of Reaktor users actually build their own ensembles, for those folks the user library is one of the best things about it.

yeah ..thats the sickness that will turn electronic music down even more... the one sided sharing that results into preset music...

i am more from the nordmodular crew with a long tradition of sharing..when i started to do something for the rektor lib i got imideatly complains about too bad dokumentation aso... kind of rude for people that only consume and dont give back...

so the stronghold max is going down that nasty path now aswell? probably you are wright...


its nice when people are sharing patches and ideas... but only to feed the culture vultures?

So things like max 4 live only keep the good people from doing own music while the copycats will prosper with some unheard sounds and great moduation toys?

however.. its no new technology anymore..ther is nothing you can do with max 4 live that has not been done in max for max allready.. just the circle of users is extremly enlarged..

so even the wildest sounds are more banal thn touching an acoustic guitar? seems that circle is closing..

the gravediggers of electronic music..you cant make money out of the music..but out of the illusion to create music..
therfore as many and as advanced presets as possible...the sequencer starts do do its own music..for you...

you need something like max to achive that

Woah. I hadn't thought of it that way. The one way sharing thing turning creations into presets - wow. Depressing.

3phase wrote:

paraclude wrote: you fail to realize that a good portion of those that are looking forward to M4L are ones that just want to use patches made by Ableton or other users. i doubt that a large percentage of Reaktor users actually build their own ensembles, for those folks the user library is one of the best things about it.

yeah ..thats the sickness that will turn electronic music down even more... the one sided sharing that results into preset music...

i am more from the nordmodular crew with a long tradition of sharing..when i started to do something for the rektor lib i got imideatly complains about too bad dokumentation aso... kind of rude for people that only consume and dont give back...

so the stronghold max is going down that nasty path now aswell? probably you are wright...


its nice when people are sharing patches and ideas... but only to feed the culture vultures?

So things like max 4 live only keep the good people from doing own music while the copycats will prosper with some unheard sounds and great moduation toys?

however.. its no new technology anymore..ther is nothing you can do with max 4 live that has not been done in max for max allready.. just the circle of users is extremly enlarged..

so even the wildest sounds are more banal thn touching an acoustic guitar? seems that circle is closing..

the gravediggers of electronic music..you cant make money out of the music..but out of the illusion to create music..
therfore as many and as advanced presets as possible...the sequencer starts do do its own music..for you...

you need something like max to achive that

i couldnt agree more.

stutter wrote:Ableton do make things very easy to learn as well (and C74's help has always been on of the great things in Max/MSP) - I'm looking forward to the tutorials and included patches.

I was a bit sorry that Reaktor always seemed to have a more centralised hub for sharing patches - but we know what Ableton/this forum's like...

www.maxforlive.com - using devices may require no programming at all if people share.

This thread gives me a great new tagline. Maxforlive.com - turning creations into presets since 2009

Tone Deft wrote:...dead simple to make. he's the one that's afraid of max/msp programming, not us. who cares?

It's geeks like you that'll make me buy M4L. Hopefully it'll be as successful as the Reaktor user library.

I'm especially excited about the vizual feed!

why is everyone failing to mention how he had never played that set before

the searching for a playing track to solo, i thought was great, but then it was trumped by the compulsive button mashing of the "performance" at the end of the video

tempus3r wrote:

stutter wrote:Ableton do make things very easy to learn as well (and C74's help has always been on of the great things in Max/MSP) - I'm looking forward to the tutorials and included patches.

I was a bit sorry that Reaktor always seemed to have a more centralised hub for sharing patches - but we know what Ableton/this forum's like...

http://www.maxforlive.com - using devices may require no programming at all if people share.

This thread gives me a great new tagline. Maxforlive.com - turning creations into presets since 2009

Wow---A page already dedicated to Max4Live patch sharing? So is this an official Ableton and/or Cycling 74 page? Just wondering---Setup looks pretty damn good to me

3phase wrote:why are you guys all so hot after max 4 live? ever dared to use max standalone? or program own reaktor ensembles?

yes and yes.

And I want better integration between patching environment and DAW.


Your attitude on this forum is pretty weird Mr 3phase....

squelcht wrote:

tempus3r wrote:

stutter wrote:Ableton do make things very easy to learn as well (and C74's help has always been on of the great things in Max/MSP) - I'm looking forward to the tutorials and included patches.

I was a bit sorry that Reaktor always seemed to have a more centralised hub for sharing patches - but we know what Ableton/this forum's like...

http://www.maxforlive.com - using devices may require no programming at all if people share.

This thread gives me a great new tagline. Maxforlive.com - turning creations into presets since 2009

Wow---A page already dedicated to Max4Live patch sharing? So is this an official Ableton and/or Cycling 74 page? Just wondering---Setup looks pretty damn good to me

Nope. http://www.maxforlive.com/about.php

It is intended to be an unofficial, user-supported resource.

I will be changing the logo soon to differentiate it from the official Max for Live logo to make the distinction more obvious.

3phase wrote:the gravediggers of electronic music..you cant make money out of the music..but out of the illusion to create music..

It is a bit defeatist (and I'm not a pessimist, I am an optometrist ) isn't it?

however, it does strike a chord with me in some ways. The portion of the market that consumes and pays with no chance of making real music, on the other hand, thats their fault isn't it? Consumers are free to purchase/ not to purchase as they wish. If they make crap music does it really dilute the quality sounds?

Cream always rises to the top IMO, with or without Max4L

necho wrote:

3phase wrote:why are you guys all so hot after max 4 live? ever dared to use max standalone? or program own reaktor ensembles?

yes and yes.

And I want better integration between patching environment and DAW.


Your attitude on this forum is pretty weird Mr 3phase....

he's just trolling. his point about preset music is lame, he's basically whining about people sharing what amounts to free VSTs. everything comes with presets. new tools means new music, new ways of making sounds, new ways to use Live. meh, no need to address a guy that's just trolling. I sense 'sour grapes.'

totally agreed on the integration tip. synching max/msp (monome stuff) and Live was a bit of a chore, that extra bit of housekeeping that can be a buzzkill.

Anubis wrote:

Tone Deft wrote:...dead simple to make. he's the one that's afraid of max/msp programming, not us. who cares?

It's geeks like you that'll make me buy M4L. Hopefully it'll be as successful as the Reaktor user library.

there's a lot of fanboy enthusiasm with my posts, careful. agreed, a user library will be super powerful. ALWAYS cheat off other people when you use max/msp. I always sensed that the C74 community was a bit tight lipped about their creations. also a lot of the patches are mac only, damnit!!!


the complaint department will be interesting when max4Live comes out. "my patch won't work, max4Live sucks, it's buggy."




***** question to beta testers.*****
can max4Live patches be saved and posted as text files?

will there be any mac vs pc issues with max4Live as there are with max/msp/jitter patches?

Oh my...

So excited. To give you the other side of the coin, here's why I can't wait...

I'm more of a Max/MSP guy than and Ableton guy. I mean, Ableton is fine, but it's not better for my purposes than, say, Logic Audio.

The major pain in the ass for me since Max 5 came out is that it is a bit tricky and labour intensive to integrate Max patches into compositions outside of Max.

A Max patch starts with nothing. A blank slate. Then you start adding things. If you want MIDI to come in, you have to create a [midiin] box. If you want to have control over where the MIDI is coming from, you have to connect a [midiinfo] object to that [midiin] box, then you have to create a method to query that [midiinfo] object, and have it output the results to a menu of some kind. If you want a timeline in your MAX patch, you have to create it. Saving a piece of music in a MAX patch *so that it can be recalled and edited* is extremely tricky. Not impossible, but harder than it should be. If you want to use a 3rd party VST instrument in Max - not straightforward at all. If you want to save any of the tweaks you've made to said 3rd party VST instrument so that they can be recalled, major major major pain. In order to recall a meta-preset on a Max Patch, in the past, you've had to have like 6 different files to save and load. Not convenient, especially in a live context.

It is my assumption that Max4Live will allow you to use Live's MIDI routing and Live's saving features.

So, maybe if you are more in the Ableton world, Max4Live will add a lot of features that you won't use... but if you are more in the Max world... Max4Live adds A LOT of features that will make composition quicker and easier, and it gives you a work environment that will allow you to easily turn your Max patches into mixable tracks.

In fact, the main reason that I tend to give up about 95% of the way through a lot of my best Max patches is that, while they worked fine, it was too difficult integrate them into my compositions. Max4Live is the solution I've been waiting for for years. Honestly. Can't wait.

Tone Deft wrote: the complaint department will be interesting when max4Live comes out. "my patch won't work, max4Live sucks, it's buggy."

hahaha..... yeah.

Tone Deft wrote:***** question to beta testers.*****
can max4Live patches be saved and posted as text files?

will there be any mac vs pc issues with max4Live as there are with max/msp/jitter patches?

Max for live has its own "device file" format. .amxd. The devices themselves are stored that way. You can also share the actual max patch text just like always. Then the recipient just needs to create a new device and paste that in the max window and save it as a device.

No issues with mac versus pc that I've run into. M4L devices that reference other patch files will have their paths go wacky but you'd have that problem even within the same platform. There is a "resolve conflict" button in the Max window for finding and fixing those types of conflicts.

But you can trade the .amxd files back and forth with either platform no worries.