Ableton Forum

the_antagonist wrote: If you think that writing a great song, or playing an instrument well, is the hardest part of being a successful artist, you are wrong.

That all depends on how one defines "successful artist".

If it means making money from your art and being well-known, then you are largely correct.

evernaut wrote:

the_antagonist wrote: If you think that writing a great song, or playing an instrument well, is the hardest part of being a successful artist, you are wrong.

That all depends on how one defines "successful artist".

If it means making money from your art and being well-known, then you are largely correct.

Wouldn't you say substantial monetary gain is part of success in your interests? I don't see much happiness coming from a successful McDonalds cashier.

I'm just saying that there are other definitions of success. I would argue that writing a truly great song is a success in and of itself.

evernaut wrote:I'm just saying that there are other definitions of success. I would argue that writing a truly great song is a success in and of itself.

Right, but the point of this post isn't about writing a few songs you and a handful of people enjoy. I don't think you have complete success in music if you still have to work a day job that either doesn't interest you or you hate just to pay the bills. That in itself can suck out a lot of creativity.

Hidden Driveways wrote:You can analyze it to death... attitude, marketing, schmoozing, etc. It doesn't matter.

Who cares what your dad or mom did. What makes music crossover with the public is 100% pure MYSTERY. Nothing will ever change that.

Active musicians have more of a chance at tapping into the mystery. Musicians with a great live show have even more of a chance. Endless analysis and fortune cookie wisdom won't really push things along.

well done. bringing wisdom full circle. the point is.... stop holding on to some dude picking you out of obscurity. one must make their own luck.

if you can only equate success in music with money and pleasing other people you've clearly lost the plot.

Tone Deft wrote:if you can only equate success in music with money and pleasing other people you've clearly lost the plot.

I think the point of THIS THREAD is success equals making a living.

By comparison you went to college for engineering but let's say instead of engineering for a living by day you worked at Best Buy and by night you farted around on a CAD system in your bedroom for your own enjoyment and maybe sharing your ideas with a handful of people on the Internet and making little to no money at it. I don't think that would qualify you as a "successful" engineer.

beats me wrote:

Tone Deft wrote:if you can only equate success in music with money and pleasing other people you've clearly lost the plot.

I think the point of THIS THREAD is success equals making a living.

By comparison you went to college for engineering but let's say instead of engineering for a living by day you worked at Best Buy and by night you farted around on a CAD system in your bedroom for your own enjoyment and maybe sharing your ideas with a handful of people on the Internet and making little to no money at it. I don't think that would qualify you as a "successful" engineer.

excelent.

the_antagonist wrote:By far the most important skill to have if you wish to become successful with anything is ATTITUDE. An old Chinese proverb once said, "90% of the journey towards success is over once you have stepped outside your front door." The reason many people fail, is because they'd rather stay in and watch the TV.

Of course, that first step outside is a philosophical one. As a musician or songwriter, you spend the vast majority of your time being creative. If you think that writing a great song, or playing an instrument well, is the hardest part of being a successful artist, you are wrong.

One of the best posts I've read on this forum or anywhere.

ahhhh i found the page

http://www.careersinmusic.co.uk/How_to_ ... riter.html

beats me wrote: I don't think you have complete success in music if you still have to work a day job that either doesn't interest you or you hate just to pay the bills.

I agree with you...and the OP...I'm just playing devil's advocate to further the discussion and expand it to include a larger view of 'success'.

But I do think that in a world where everyone with a laptop, Garageband and a few samples and plugins thinks he/she is a musician/producer, the very best thing you could to distinguish yourself is to hone your chops and create some truly exceptional work...and THEN work your arse off to get it out there and make it pay.

Talent and hard work first - followed up with attitude and self-promotion.

beats me wrote:

Tone Deft wrote:if you can only equate success in music with money and pleasing other people you've clearly lost the plot.

I think the point of THIS THREAD is success equals making a living.

oh, I didn't see the rules. dunno, equating art and money and validation from other people just seems wrong. BUT it does exist, so, OK.

By comparison you went to college for engineering but let's say instead of engineering for a living by day you worked at Best Buy and by night you farted around on a CAD system in your bedroom for your own enjoyment and maybe sharing your ideas with a handful of people on the Internet and making little to no money at it. I don't think that would qualify you as a "successful" engineer.

interesting flip of the script. if someone went to Berklee and ended up working at Best Buy, that's a fail. on the other hand I've known people without formal training that have designed electronic stuff and written code and made things, that's a success but does it mean they're a success? nope.

OK, if you don't make money and fans from your music you're a failure. a vast majority of DAW users, bedroom musicians, Berklee students, kids taking piano lessons are all failures.

or are not being successful and being a failure exclusive?

semantics?

is the horse dead yet?

evernaut wrote:Talent and hard work first - followed up with attitude and self-promotion.

more or less agreed. I just hate people with attitude. if you know your shit you don't need it.

Tone Deft wrote: more or less agreed. I just hate people with attitude. if you know your shit you don't need it.

I meant attitude in the context of the original post...which I took to be more confidence & self-belief than the swaggering "fuck you, I'm the man" version.

Tone Deft wrote:

beats me wrote:

Tone Deft wrote:if you can only equate success in music with money and pleasing other people you've clearly lost the plot.

I think the point of THIS THREAD is success equals making a living.

oh, I didn't see the rules. dunno, equating art and money and validation from other people just seems wrong. BUT it does exist, so, OK.

By comparison you went to college for engineering but let's say instead of engineering for a living by day you worked at Best Buy and by night you farted around on a CAD system in your bedroom for your own enjoyment and maybe sharing your ideas with a handful of people on the Internet and making little to no money at it. I don't think that would qualify you as a "successful" engineer.

interesting flip of the script. if someone went to Berklee and ended up working at Best Buy, that's a fail. on the other hand I've known people without formal training that have designed electronic stuff and written code and made things, that's a success but does it mean they're a success? nope.

OK, if you don't make money and fans from your music you're a failure. a vast majority of DAW users, bedroom musicians, Berklee students, kids taking piano lessons are all failures.

or are not being successful and being a failure exclusive?

semantics?

is the horse dead yet?

evernaut wrote:Talent and hard work first - followed up with attitude and self-promotion.

more or less agreed. I just hate people with attitude. if you know your shit you don't need it.

I'd like to enter the word "great" into evidence. Somebody can be "great" at something but that doesn't make them "successful" or a "failure".

If you were having a conversation with somebody and they told you they had a friend that was a great guitarist you would think that meant they are skilled at playing guitar. If they told you they were a successful guitarist you would think that means they are making a living at it.

Putting the word successful in front of just about every interest or career generally means they are doing well financially off it, except for possibly rapist.

If you ain't happy, you're no success no matter how much money you make.