Ableton Forum

SubFunk wrote:
twiddle, twirk, crackle, slip, zoosh, frrrck, zoing, plugin efx nonsense over a beat.

Sounds like my music though I have no intention of making beats, at least not in the traditional sense.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... did=944007

Jarvisimon wrote:

SubFunk wrote:
twiddle, twirk, crackle, slip, zoosh, frrrck, zoing, plugin efx nonsense over a beat.

Sounds like my music though I have no intention of making beats, at least not in the traditional sense.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... did=944007

cool, it's just not my cuppa tea.

No matter what kind of improvisation is discussed (or rather, condemned) here, I have to disagree with the words 'start your linear sequencer and bring something to perfection' when they are used against improvisation. Good improvisers, regardless of their instrument, work very hard and long to build their own improvisational language. As far as I am concerned, a good improvisation will always have a larger body of work and ideas behind it than a perfectly arranged house or techno tune (and I like house and techno).

Improvisation is instant composition / composition is slowed down improvisation. The two are different only by the time frame they take place - otherwise they are the same process (technically and artistically).

Improvisation itself is not the problem. The problem is people not knowing how to edit. Edited improvisation has lead to some of the best music ever historically. Forming some kind of structure within the improvisation instead of dozens of minutes and hours of random directionless crap.

If you spend 3 hours jamming into your APC40, some parts of that might sound cool, but other parts don't work and or get as interesting to another listener as watching paint dry on a wall. A bit like asking Eddie Van Halen to finger tap some guitar solo for 3 hours. How many people will still be listening after a couple of minutes ??

Ferchrissakes people. Boil your sets down to the good parts, learn how to make layers interesting, and most of all, avoid Berlin minimal techno !!!!! You know - learn how to cut and edit.

I know what you mean, though I do like artist like dosh, but he might be a bad example because even his improvised stuff is something that he turns into a song very quickly. I think everything has it's place, nothing wrong with some good jamming on whatever instrument in whatever type of music but it's hard to understand those that talk like if you use a laptop and midi controller on stage and it isn't all from scratch that it's not music. Personally I feel like that is the easy way out for alot of people, no different than it was for abstract art some time ago, it's nice to throw a bucket of paint at a canvas and have people give you praise for that but I like to see a mofo draw somethin.

it's a strange time though, the concept of a 'song' is kind of entering this 'uncool' phase, I'm so sick of hearing people talk about 'beats, patches, and sounds' myself included we get way to carried away with
that shit, I'm trying right now to make less beats and write more songs.
there's always somebody talking about how they made all of that noise on the fly. I guess writing songs is just something else that's too old school for alot of electronic musicians...........meh

@leeds, yeah that's what I mean about dosh, he can improvise and still write songs at the same time.

leedsquietman wrote:avoid Berlin minimal techno !!!!!

WHAT? you are so not a cool scene guy. pffffft.

not so sure about the improvised element but im hating all the noise based stuff thesedays.

mr.ergonomics wrote:I have enough of 'glitch random boring static improvisational' performance music.I love experimental music and I love jazz, but I think 98% of the so called one men 'improvised music' is boring as hell. Start your linear sequencer and bring something to perfection. Music isn't interesting just because you do something live.

Now feel free to agree or disagree.

As opposed to ponces who show up with a laptop full of clips and deliver nothing more than a shite filled DJ set?

Music is always more interesting when done live. Improvised live music just scares people that don't understand the challenges and the rewards.

Used to play in a band where shows were predominately improvised. We never sold ourselves on it ever because we were just being lazy and could get away with it.

Improvising is just pick up an instrument and start playing notes, not difficult at all.

i usually don't like improv music because it simply enhances the effect of people not listening to each other. Improving is an art and a language, and you rarely find people who speak it. And when you do, those people tend to be so lost in it, and INTO it, they won't learn parts. Making them useless for most projects.

I'm talking about "real" bands here. Twiddly music sucks too, because theys guys are def not listening and interacting with anything, so it's just a giant wank session.

Anyway, again, some people like it, some don't.... is all good. I like good music no matter what style or how it was made. Rather, i enjoy learning/observing good music no matter what style

True - but anyone can improvise something, however, it takes discipline and skill to arrange something to sound coherent and focused. As said before, improvisation is fine, just learn to edit and build your improvisation into something with a little structure, or keep your improvisation to short bursts and then you've got the best of both worlds.

Prog rock did the improvisation thing to death and now, many people list it as music they like the least, an 'improvised' Dream Theater jam for 30 minutes etc would turn me off so quick I'd be outta there before they hit the first note. Even though, there's no doubting the skill of some of those musicians.

10 years ago I thought sound tribe sector 9 had a cool thing going....and then that even got old. I think I agree with you. There are some moments from the "bays" that have caught my attention, at least what little video I have seen (never seen them live).

you guys have it all figured out, don't you?


saying that you "hate improvised music" is one of the most vague, close minded, and just plain old fucking stupid things i've ever read on this forum. And that's hard to do.




.lm.

leisuremuffin wrote:you guys have it all figured out, don't you?


saying that you "hate improvised music" is one of the most vague, close minded, and just plain old fucking stupid things i've ever read on this forum. And that's hard to do.




.lm.

Thanks for the award. Don't take it too serious my friend, you know the term 'overstatementand' and the forum here.
But I don't think it's vague, a lot of people seems to know what I mean.

leedsquietman wrote:Improvisation itself is not the problem. The problem is people not knowing how to edit. Edited improvisation has lead to some of the best music ever historically. Forming some kind of structure within the improvisation instead of dozens of minutes and hours of random directionless crap.

If you spend 3 hours jamming into your APC40, some parts of that might sound cool, but other parts don't work and or get as interesting to another listener as watching paint dry on a wall. A bit like asking Eddie Van Halen to finger tap some guitar solo for 3 hours. How many people will still be listening after a couple of minutes ??

Ferchrissakes people. Boil your sets down to the good parts, learn how to make layers interesting, and most of all, avoid Berlin minimal techno !!!!! You know - learn how to cut and edit.

+1

And we should not forget that jazz improvisation has a rule set, otherwise it's free jazz (which I don't like most of the time, even if it's interesting sometimes).
Furthermore I have to correct myself, I think there are genres which are ok for improvisation. Ambient music or drone music is one for example!

mr. e, do you have a link to an example of the type of stuff you're referring to?