ABLETON BEING STRECHED TOO THIN

[anybody human]

I don't know about this power user thing. Live's never crashed when I've been pushing it hard or working on complex tracks for a long time. Only odd things at odd times like I mentioned before, like when I first bought a softsynth and ran thru presets, which I don't do anymore unless I'm looking for modwheel, aftertouch ideas etc.
Anyway, for me it's only random things, never actually working on a track that crashes Live. I had a run in the 7.?'s but nothing with 8.
In Pro Tools they call it the spinning wheel of death, programs crash. Not good though.

[Pasha]

I don't get paid by Ableton.
Sorry but my Macbook and my iMac NEVER CRASH!
10.5.6 and Live 8.0.8 / 8.0.4

Macs should be 'standard' in terms of operative system so
why some Macs are reported not to work and some others work fine?
As an IT Pro, my only answer is :

1) Some of your upgrades went bad and some kernel stuff is corrupted (Apple's bad but it might eventually happen)
2) Some crap extensions you downloaded broke your OS (generally kernel modules, have been added to your system)
3) Some utility that silently places some background process in your system
4) Snow Leopard is not fully tested (i.e. Snow Leopard breaks iMovie 09 is some circumstances...)
5) Faulty Hardware

Live should be 'standard' and not possible to be code edited so problems must come from:

1) Offending VST/AU (Cracked versions, freeware/shareware not properly coded)
2) Offending branded VST/AU (Some have been reported by the Abes some eventually will, software is shit it might happen)
3) Audio/MIDI Hardware driver has bugs (suggest to try with internal Audio card who uses Coreaudio)
4) Live has some bugs

So before claiming 'Live has bugs' there are a lot of things to check.
We as computer owners (Win or Mac doesn't care) should learn to kill the insane habit
of continuously downloading crap from the net and install it or begin using Sandboxes instead.
Test and then put in production environment when ok. I know is time consuming, but on a Mac you need
29 Dollars for Superduper and an external Drive (100 Dollars) and you can isolate problems and solve them.
We are responsible for our computers, not Ableton.
If after all this, well documented and proven, someone still has stopping bugs then it's perfectly legit
to whine and complaint. BTW I'm not saying you need to spend money (see above) to prove a Live's bug,
but if you call yourself a pro then act as such. Pro I know who work in studios never, never do anything harmful
to themselves, they do not put their work in jeopardy by installing every piece of crap they found on the net
on the production machine, never update software (OS or DAW) before gigs or studio recordings.
Test every DAW release before commit it in a production environment. Test every OS release before commit it
in production environment.... And if you are not a pro, well it's good habit to follow the above suggestion
to avoid headaches. Making music and using computers should be a pleasure not an agony. With a little
grain of salt everyone can flip a bad night into a music making day, with no worries.

my 2 cents

- Best
- Pasha

[Tarekith]

I was playing with M4L today and had three completely random crashes (8.1, 10.6.2). I have very few plug ins and did a full OS reinstall just a few weeks ago. It does happen, rare, but it does happen. It's easy to blame a person's computer or their maintenance (I'm pretty confident I'm on top of my system), but you can't write off every single crash as being user error.

[Pasha]

I was playing with M4L today and had three completely random crashes (8.1, 10.6.2). I have very few plug ins and did a full OS reinstall just a few weeks ago. It does happen, rare, but it does happen. It's easy to blame a person's computer or their maintenance (I'm pretty confident I'm on top of my system), but you can't write off every single crash as being user error.

Got you. Just to clarify on my post I was referring to that part of technology-humanity that never checks his equipment
and immediately posts here without even filing a bug report to Ableton. There are behaviors that need to be perfected
in order to work as intended. Hope this cleans out any misinterpretation or misunderstanding.
It would have been easy to predict that M4L would have created new bugs so in your situation you're beyond what I wrote
in my post. I have worked in Software Development and I feel you, believe me, because I know how QA is done.
No human works in the QA room. We had ten computers with QA software running on it 24h/day with some automation scripts
that simulated human doings. Seems cool but this system, has a big flaw. People who setup the QA scripts are the ones
developing the software. So you can test only the banal every day usage of the application and not the real world.
However the software industry accepts that after a 'rigorous' testing of thousands of hours (10 computers 24h/day for
a month) without a crash is considered good. Of course sometimes you cut the corners and you do not test any bug fixing
with a full regression test otherwise it would take too much to test it completely and marketing will whine...
So my friend, I feel you. Random crashes are the worst.

- Good luck !
- Best
- Pasha

[Tarekith]

Random are definitely the worst. I'd love to send stuff like that to Ableton, but when I do the exact same actions and it doesn't give me the same result (crash), then it's a waste of everyone's time. I did a lot of tech support at my last job, so I know first hand the importance of submitted reproducible crashes. It's those damned freak one that get you out of nowhere for 'x' reason that are the real bane of most of us.

[Machinesworking]

Beyond being broke I never upgraded to Live 8 because I thought it wasn't stable enough upon release, and yes, I did beta test it, and yes I did post that at the time. It seems like this new round of Live 8 bashing is centered on 8.1 which is probably due to Max4Live and certain people's systems? For instance I don't know what kind of warning people are getting from Ableton about the Pluggo / Max4Live situation, but you have to remove a library from Live in 8.1 as it stands to get Pluggo working....
So yeah some bugs exist, but all software has bugs if it's at all advanced. I would like to use 8 soon, but I'm waiting out the Pluggo bug, as I can't afford M4L and 8 ATM.

[tw1nstates]

fair enough...can you explain power usage? I am genuinely(sp) interested. Like how much CPU is being used or the electrical power?

when your crashfiles from the betas are to big to be recieved by the email server of bet@ableton you are probably a power user

Yup, that's my scenario.

And, I didn;'t knw there were still racked versions around these days? I donno cos i have a legit version like most of the ppl who post here I would hazard a guess.

The crashes are not because of cracked software.

And even though I probavbly fall into the power user bracket. live isn't using nearly all of my system resources.

I actually think that a lot of the issues I have had are related to Ram usage / over use - am going to do some tests tonight and post back once done. . .

[tw1nstates]

I don't get paid by Ableton.
Sorry but my Macbook and my iMac NEVER CRASH!
10.5.6 and Live 8.0.8 / 8.0.4

Macs should be 'standard' in terms of operative system so
why some Macs are reported not to work and some others work fine?
As an IT Pro, my only answer is :

1) Some of your upgrades went bad and some kernel stuff is corrupted (Apple's bad but it might eventually happen)
2) Some crap extensions you downloaded broke your OS (generally kernel modules, have been added to your system)
3) Some utility that silently places some background process in your system
4) Snow Leopard is not fully tested (i.e. Snow Leopard breaks iMovie 09 is some circumstances...)
5) Faulty Hardware

Live should be 'standard' and not possible to be code edited so problems must come from:

1) Offending VST/AU (Cracked versions, freeware/shareware not properly coded)
2) Offending branded VST/AU (Some have been reported by the Abes some eventually will, software is shit it might happen)
3) Audio/MIDI Hardware driver has bugs (suggest to try with internal Audio card who uses Coreaudio)
4) Live has some bugs

So before claiming 'Live has bugs' there are a lot of things to check.
We as computer owners (Win or Mac doesn't care) should learn to kill the insane habit
of continuously downloading crap from the net and install it or begin using Sandboxes instead.
Test and then put in production environment when ok. I know is time consuming, but on a Mac you need
29 Dollars for Superduper and an external Drive (100 Dollars) and you can isolate problems and solve them.
We are responsible for our computers, not Ableton.
If after all this, well documented and proven, someone still has stopping bugs then it's perfectly legit
to whine and complaint. BTW I'm not saying you need to spend money (see above) to prove a Live's bug,
but if you call yourself a pro then act as such. Pro I know who work in studios never, never do anything harmful
to themselves, they do not put their work in jeopardy by installing every piece of crap they found on the net
on the production machine, never update software (OS or DAW) before gigs or studio recordings.
Test every DAW release before commit it in a production environment. Test every OS release before commit it
in production environment.... And if you are not a pro, well it's good habit to follow the above suggestion
to avoid headaches. Making music and using computers should be a pleasure not an agony. With a little
grain of salt everyone can flip a bad night into a music making day, with no worries.

my 2 cents

- Best
- Pasha

actually you have missed out a significant other posibility, that the system is being maxed out and therfore is causing problems under load.

I honestly think that is the problem as I wasnb't having the same problems under live 7.

So, think about it. If all systems are the same, (macs which they aren't as 10.4, .5 and .6 are different). And I didn't have problems with live 7 then more than likely it's live 8 that's causing the issues?

Esp when I have had vst's that work fine and have done for years crash a project when I drag em onto a new track. . .

[UKRuss]

$15. I fix your problemz.

[tw1nstates]

done.

What time can you get here? East London. . . .

[UKRuss]

Snowed in in Sussex. Been sledging with the kids today.

[kb420]

I will stop rambling and get to the point. Maybe ableton should think about splitting up the software into two sepearte idea. This might be seen as a dumb idea, but I am jst trying to figure a way to get this software to work in the way that I think the programers intended which was a stable intuitive program that can allow unlimited creativity with efficent work flow.

Maybe your time would be better spent on something more productive. Here's my advice. Make music. Use Live, and if you have any issues, email tech support.

-Thank You-


(Who the hell made you a part of the development team anyway? )

[Tarekith]

Snowed in in Sussex. Been sledging with the kids today.

Breaking up concrete with large hammers? Aren't there child labor laws against that kind of thing in the UK?

[jamief]

The problem I see and I am sure long time user already know, is that maybe ableton is trying to cover to many areas of the software market.

I have noticed this as well. To be honest ableton have alot of overheads now and will be working with external and internal focus groups trying to make sure they cover all the angles which will keep there business sound and sure. There seems nothing wrong with that. But something has shifted to the wrong ethios somewhere within in there thinking or organisation . But its not dramatic and i,m sure its full of the best of intentions and thoutghfullness.
But it is tangible. They are doing still a fantastic job. But small signs are the beginings of perhaps slightly more dramatic future issues.
Cubase which i used for along time before live, eventually succumbed to something internally that rendederd there software into shite. Never been back with them since and never tried to work out why. But Live i do care about

[jamief]

Snowed in in Sussex. Been sledging with the kids today.

Breaking up concrete with large hammers? Aren't there child labor laws against that kind of thing in the UK?