Ableton Forum

mescalin wrote:Using more than 2GB RAM in a sesson, that's not exactly minimalism is it, more a train wreck...

i'd have to give myself lashes if I used that much RAM, because I would have been a very bad boy

interesting,

If you use, say BFD and then Stylus for percussion, load up the bongo's and then the congas and then say shakers from the sound menues, so you have 3 instance of stylus plus one of BFD, then say you want some etxtra percussion from BFD's percussion expansion kit that's gonna be your memory limit in Live done JUST ON DRUMS. Let alone wanting to use Trillian, Akoustik Piano, Collossus, Kontakt for some brass and perhaps East West for Strings from EWQL Symphony Orchestra Gold Xp.

Nobody needs 64 bit recording, the OP was simply stating that as Live currently stands it doesn't play well with the big sample libraries.

It's very unstable when there is a lot of stuff frozen, seemingly when you get over the 2 gig limit of ram usage, at least this is what i find with my projects.

Live doesn't seem to release the ram back to the system as in mt system monitor it's showing 2.5 gigs of ram being allocated to live even on projects where I have frozen everything.

And, also, Live's freeze function is very very slow. Slower than real time it seems sometimes. SO freezing is an option that allows you to work on an unstable system, albeit one that will allow greater usage of ram than without, but it's not perfect.

So, 64 bit not needed for anything other than using several vsti's that use big libraries.

And yes I have done a lot of the disk streaming optimisations. . .



I f*king love this program. I really do, but it has some really annoying limitations at the moment!

nbinder wrote:

aeon_flux wrote:i'm not sure if all those from pro-64 camp noticed that even kernel do not run in 64-bit on snow leopard

On typical macbooks/mac-pros it does not. However you can boot into 64bit mode by pressing 6 and 4 during startup.

One has to dig deeper into the topic to understand why and where 64bit can be better. In case of the kernel one has to realize that the kernel itself does not need to address more than 4gb of ram (currently - 2009). There have been some tests comparing the 64bit and 32bit kernel and the results show that there is no major benefit for workstation users right now.

i know all that things. 64 exists to broke old architectures limits. this is not for regular users. so if someone is talking "make it 64-bit" it makes no sense.

one of the reasons that on regular computers leo is booting kernel into 32-bit mode is lack of rewritten drivers into 64. it takes time. one day live also will be 64-bit.

Well for me, Ableton and all my drivers are working great on my 64-bit Windows 7 machine. Didn't and still don't have 32 bit driver issues.
I'm never going back to the dreaded XP 32-bit build I used to use!!

Wait until Ableton release a 64 bit version of Live ! Expect issues, especially involving 3rd party plugins. This has been the case for all 64 bit apps. Eventually this whole thing will be super peachy, when plugin developers are natively coding 64 bit drivers routinely, when all of the audio and midi interfaces/controllers/devices have properly written w7 and snow leopard drivers which have been refined and not barely out of beta, then everyone will start to enjoy the full 64 bit experience a lot more than present, where some have gotten lucky over drivers and plugins and others ... haven't. 32 bit versions of Sonar and Cubase typically run so much better under a 64 bit o/s with some performance advantages but unlike gaming which is super keen to take advantage of the extra ram allocation for 3d gaming, the DAW world (and always has been) a couple of years behind the times.

XP was a rock solid o/s in it's final couple of years. It ought to have been too, given that developers had 6 or 7 years practical usage to write good drivers.

the only vsti i use are stylus rmx, trilian, omnisphere, kontakt 3 (acoustik piano, electrik piano, GPO, JABB, Chris Hein Horn vol I/II, VI-ONE) and EWQL Play (EWQL symphonic gold, EWQL piano gold, EWQL choir, QL goliath, QL voice of passion, QL RA, QL Stormdrum) and i own an hp vista 64-bit i7 920 with 9 GB of ram...

i have all the tools i need except for my DAW is not 64-bit. i have 64-bit drivers for my soundcard, keystation pro 88 and novation sl zero. reaper works with my setup using the 64 bit app. ableton live is my weapon of choice. there is nothing like the session view. in my opinion ableton live 64-bit would be great...

i just need more access to RAM and freezing is not the answer. the freeze function is for the ole p4 machines and not for for a vista 64 i7 920 with 9 GB of ram...

with freeware or low budget vsti ableton 32 bit is nice but for use with large sample libraries ableton live 64 bit is a must...

aeon_flux wrote:

nbinder wrote:

aeon_flux wrote:i'm not sure if all those from pro-64 camp noticed that even kernel do not run in 64-bit on snow leopard

On typical macbooks/mac-pros it does not. However you can boot into 64bit mode by pressing 6 and 4 during startup.

One has to dig deeper into the topic to understand why and where 64bit can be better. In case of the kernel one has to realize that the kernel itself does not need to address more than 4gb of ram (currently - 2009). There have been some tests comparing the 64bit and 32bit kernel and the results show that there is no major benefit for workstation users right now.

i know all that things. 64 exists to broke old architectures limits. this is not for regular users. so if someone is talking "make it 64-bit" it makes no sense.

one of the reasons that on regular computers leo is booting kernel into 32-bit mode is lack of rewritten drivers into 64. it takes time. one day live also will be 64-bit.

Yes... I didn't want to disagree, just though I should add some stuff to your post

tw1nstates wrote:Live doesn't seem to release the ram back to the system as in mt system monitor it's showing 2.5 gigs of ram being allocated to live even on projects where I have frozen everything.

And, also, Live's freeze function is very very slow. Slower than real time it seems sometimes. SO freezing is an option that allows you to work on an unstable system, albeit one that will allow greater usage of ram than without, but it's not perfect.

1. I guess it is impossible to release the RAM a plugin uses by freezing the channel. The plugin can still be woken up and expects all its data still in place. I don't think that there is a "on unfreeze callback" to the plugin. Therefore this should be the same in any DAW.
2. You do know that Live's freeze does twice the length of a clip and loops the second pass? Therefore you need twice the time as well - of course! I don't know how much more overhead is needed in the freezing process compared to playback, but slower than realtime on a channel with very cpu heavy plugins seems to me very possible.

I just bought Live about 10 minutes ago. It never occurred to me that, in 20-freaking-10, a DAW wouldn't support 64-bit. Unbelievable.

edit: I've emailed support about a refund, we'll see what they say.

Logic, Digital Performer, Pro Tools LE/MP/HD, Samplitude, Vegas/Sound Forge and others are still 32 bit only apps too. AFAIK, Sonar, Cubase and Reaper are the only apps that offer a 64 bit version.

Most 64 bit apps are not running that well due to plugin and/or driver issues, so many people install the 32 bit versions of those apps anyway. If you had read the contents of this thread you would understand this.

Braindropz wrote:I just bought Live about 10 minutes ago. It never occurred to me that, in 20-freaking-10, a DAW wouldn't support 64-bit. Unbelievable.

edit: I've emailed support about a refund, we'll see what they say.

Thats too funny. Did you actually notice any real world problems with the 32 bit limitation while you were demoing Live?

Ragequit!

leedsquietman wrote:Logic, Digital Performer, Pro Tools LE/MP/HD, Samplitude, Vegas/Sound Forge and others are still 32 bit only apps too. AFAIK, Sonar, Cubase and Reaper are the only apps that offer a 64 bit version.

Yeah, I'd gone from Sonar to Cubase because of score issues, and wanted to add Ableton for doing some live stuff. Like I said, it just didn't occur to me, because I'd never had to think about it in the past.

Frankly, the knowledge that so many companies still haven't managed to recompile for 64-bit gives me a bit of a nightmare when I think about the implications that has for their memory management code...

pants - Nope. I didn't demo it, I impulse bought it after watching about a jillion youtube videos.

B

Braindropz wrote: edit: I've emailed support about a refund, we'll see what they say.

How's that refund coming along? lol.

he asked for a refund because it's not 64 bit?

wow.

why should it be 64 bit? it also only supports dual core, is that worth a refund?

Since it's 10:45 PM in Germany, I doubt too much is happening with it. I dunno, maybe they keep musician hours.

Since I bought the download version less than 90 minutes ago, and never completed a d/l, and never actually activated anything, I don't think it's unreasonable to request a refund. I don't have any expectations one way or the other as it's software. At least Amazon will take the Launchpad back.

If not, it sits on the shelf until such time as it does support 64-bit, or I decide to dedicate a system to it. I will probably not slit a wrist over it...

B

Braindropz wrote:Since it's 10:45 PM in Germany, I doubt too much is happening with it. I dunno, maybe they keep musician hours.

Since I bought the download version less than 90 minutes ago, and never completed a d/l, and never actually activated anything, I don't think it's unreasonable to request a refund. I don't have any expectations one way or the other as it's software. At least Amazon will take the Launchpad back.

If not, it sits on the shelf until such time as it does support 64-bit, or I decide to dedicate a system to it. I will probably not slit a wrist over it...

B

You do know that Live runs just fine on a 64 bit OS?