Ableton Forum

jeskola01 wrote:Yeah, download the Adobe Fireworks demo, open your scan and then chop it up with slice tool, then export to images/html.
But to be honest the code it spits out is rubbish.

OK, so I need to go Adobe after all. Might as well be ok. I know Illustrator, Photoshop and After Effects. All Adobe programs. Maybe there is some similarities.. Thanks!

ze2be wrote:

jeskola01 wrote:Yeah, download the Adobe Fireworks demo, open your scan and then chop it up with slice tool, then export to images/html.
But to be honest the code it spits out is rubbish.

OK, so I need to go Adobe after all. Might as well be ok. I know Illustrator, Photoshop and After Effects. All Adobe programs. Maybe there is some similarities.. Thanks!

Which version of Photoshop do you have?
You may have imageready which will do the same job if it's an older photoshop.

jeskola01 wrote:

ze2be wrote:

jeskola01 wrote:Yeah, download the Adobe Fireworks demo, open your scan and then chop it up with slice tool, then export to images/html.
But to be honest the code it spits out is rubbish.

OK, so I need to go Adobe after all. Might as well be ok. I know Illustrator, Photoshop and After Effects. All Adobe programs. Maybe there is some similarities.. Thanks!

Which version of Photoshop do you have?
You may have imageready which will do the same job if it's an older photoshop.

CS4
This file I create from chopping up the picture into a web page with links, where do I then compile it with other content for upload with my ftp client? Im a total nOOb on this.

derzai wrote:Dont know, just for a simple webpage Notepad will do.

Then open the file in a browser and you will see what you get.

This is how we created my signature web page. I created the design, and my buddy cut it into pieces and uploaded it as a notepad file. What I did not like was that he had to cut it into pieces and ad frames that did not fit together the way I intended. And he even had to create his own box line of links. So the design fell apart all together from what my original design was about. This is due to both of us being far from experienced web designers!

If you already own and know how to use Photoshop CS4, I would think that adding Dreamweaver / Fireworks would be the best option. The free and open source alternatives are alright, yet the support, tutorials and integration of the Adobe stuff has considerable value, especially if you are completely new to webdesign.

Having said that, a good use of Photoshop with something like Wordpress could take you a long way quickly.

Another affordable option if you are on a Mac is Rapidweaver. It offers the depth of Dreamweaver, yet with the ease of use of iWeb.

Akshara wrote:Having said that, a good use of Photoshop with something like Wordpress could take you a long way quickly.

People keep saying so, but I have yet to find a Wordpress template interface builder that works like I want. Its all very bloggy looking, and the best builders are text based, which I absolutely don't understand. The ones with better builder menus are way to bloggy and simple. I don't care if it is a blog, but id like it to look as a web page, not a blog.

To create a web page like I have created in my sign, with pictures, music links, and guestbook, would I need both Dreamweaver and Fireworks? The graphics on this page was created in photoshop, and the page was put together with a word pad text application, by my friend and partner. Id like to do this without needing him. Ideally I just want to have a drag, drop, and upload application. It takes years to learn Adobe programs..But I do know photoshop and illustrator.

I had a guy trying to create a web page for me with dreamweaver, using complete jpeg designs that I had created in photoshop. 3 jpegs: Page 1 with links, page 2, page 3. I sat beside him, and it looked like a mess to me! I don't understand all the web terminology. And things didn't align as I wanted, he did not know how to align it properly either. I ended up not using it at all!

Honestly and with all seriousness, unless you have a burning desire to learn HTML, CSS, DHTML, Javascript, PHP, MySQL and/or XHTML, you should just save yourself the headache now in both time and money and hire someone to do this for you. Even with the WYSIWYG editors, without having some basic understanding of web coding, you will have a difficult time getting the results that you see in your mind. I have several thousands of hours in web design experience over the last fifteen years, both with CMS scripts and with coding by hand, and this is probably the best advice you are going to get on this subject, even if it isn't what you want to hear.

A site like the one your signature points to could be done with Dreamweaver and Fireworks, by someone who knows what they are doing with those programs, and would require some basic HTML and CSS understanding along with some form of database or DHTML knowledge for the interactive elements like the guestbook. Without having HTML and CSS knowledge, this type of site would be much easier to accomplish with a CMS like Wordpress or Joomla and the proper plugins, yet again by someone who knows what they are doing with those scripts. The reason people keep saying so is because it is true.

I'm just giving you honest advice. What you are asking is similar to asking if Ableton Live can help compose a song that you have in your head. The answer is "yes"... but it is going to take at least some knowledge of music and recording theory to do so.

Dreamweaver is a very deep application, at least as deep as Photoshop, and is going to have a steep learning curve. Even if you never hand code a single HTML text line and only use the WYSIWYG editor, there are going to be formatting errors which are going to require some basic HTML and CSS knowledge to fix, even if only to figure out what the problem is and to know what to look up.

If you are determined to do this yourself, and are on a PC, my next advice would be to really learn either Wordpress or Joomla and find a good template, whether free or commercial, which is close to what you want, and install plugins to do the features like streaming media and the guestbook. There are non-bloggy themes out there, you just have to look harder - I speak from experience.

If you are on a Mac, strongly consider using RapidWeaver or iWeb. Those are the only two web design applications I have worked with which allow someone with zero web coding experience to build a really nice site. My wife knows very little HTML and CSS, and applications like Photoshop and Dreamweaver give her a headache just from their interfaces; yet she can design, upload and update a quality site in Rapidweaver easily, without my help.

And finally, if you do choose to go the Dreamweaver route, invest in a video tutorial or book to speed things up, like at designprovideo.com or lynda.com, along with a Basic HTML / CSS book, video or website to get the basics; along with a couple pounds of quality coffee.

Edit: You don't need Fireworks, it just makes web formatting of images easier. Photoshop and Dreamweaver can do it all.

Now that I think of it, my friend Ariana does this kind of thing professionally as a side gig, and is quite adept with Photoshop based web design.
http://www.arianasaraha.com/citmatrix/

Brilliant! I take my hat of for your friendly and insight full words. Thank you!


I might be a bit of a control freak, what do I know. But I really don't like to be dependent on a web designer to keep my website flowing. For instance, we had a new release that should be on our record labels "releases" page. But the web editor didn't and still don't have time to fix it. I need to write news, add updates on releases etc, but I cant access it.. This is what led me to research Wordpress. (im on PC)
But I get your point.. Doing it all alone might well be to time consuming for the un experienced with little time at hand. Its probably like After Effects: If your going to make quality animations, you gotta put some years into it.

So maybe I should hire someone after all. At least if I pay for it, the editor might be easier to get hold of when its time for updates and news. The first blog I tried using was Blogger. The interface was really easy and fast, so I guess I thought Wordpress would be easy too. Far from it! Well, some Wordpress "templates" were similar, but the ones I found was lacking most of the futures I needed. The ones that actually had something to it was all pure text coding.

If I hire a web designer, maybe some of the pages could be hidden blogs that could be easy for me to update and maintain? Basically the News page, pictures page, artists and booking page, and music releases page. The way it is now im pulling my hair of, because it hasnt been updated at all the last 10 months!

The perfect scenario would be to have a real solid web page frame with sections that I could jump into like a simple blog system: adding new text, pictures, and music files. Like blog tablets/slates on the pages that I could access just as easy as writing mail with adding music and picture files. Blogger is that easy. Some parts of wordpress too.



Some of the sites that your friend did was nice. Simple, but nice and mostly wordpress. Not bad. I don't need, nor can afford any fancy shmancy homepage. But I would like to try to make it artistically appealing. I can design it myself, but it seems I need someone experienced to help build it. Being a so called experienced designer though, I really don't accept my design works to be cut apart and un-aligned. That just kills me! But so far no one has given me the restrictions I need to keep withing when painting a web page with... water color on paper!! (just to graphically put a real world scenario on a stick) Im an old school designer. I like to paint and scan.

I agree with Akshara , but I would also say that what you think of as the most important aspect is probably the least important.

a big image based fancy interface.

One of the things you would eventually learn is that users (visitors) do not like these things, only clients and designers do. This is not a design to be looked at and admired, it is a product to be used and should be designed as such - with ease of use as the primary criteria.

The very first and worst mistake that all novice web designers make is going for the amazing, exciting, unnusual and innovative, fascinating interface.

Imagine an amazing, exciting, unnusual and innovative, fascinating door knob.
does it really open the door better?

I tell my clients not to put a funfair in front of their store, because if the funfair is any good it will distract the users to much for them to actually enter and buy anything (which is surely the point?).
While if the funfair is terrible - well yuck, you just soiled your doorstep.

This is why all web designs now look very similar.
And why all doors look like doors.

Because you don't put barriers in the way of the user

I personally didn't think Dreamweaver was all that hard to learn, coming from a Photoshop background. As long as you go through the included tutorials, and be realistic about what you want to design for your first website, I think it's a pretty simple app to use. It gets complicated when you try and do things outside your ability, or maybe I should say TOO MANY things outside your ability at once.

Angstrom wrote:Imagine an amazing, exciting, unnusual and innovative, fascinating door knob.
does it really open the door better?

Hehe! Yeah, very good points. I agree, and im glad you brought it up! What I want is fairly simple though. A header that blends with the background, links on a line, and pages with pictures, text, and music links that I can update like a blog.

I don't want anything like this: http://www.boomfestival.org/boom2010/
Nor this: http://warp.net/
I want something like this: http://www.runegrammofon.com/

I guess to hide a blog one can use the same background picture and header elements as the front page, and cut it up into the blogs blocks, so it appears to have the same look?

Tarekith wrote:I personally didn't think Dreamweaver was all that hard to learn, coming from a Photoshop background. As long as you go through the included tutorials, and be realistic about what you want to design for your first website, I think it's a pretty simple app to use. It gets complicated when you try and do things outside your ability, or maybe I should say TOO MANY things outside your ability at once.

Yeah, but I really don't have time. I have two festivals to produce, lots of concerts to play, im in the middle of an album, im running a record label, AND I have a day job to keep me busy. But it pays the rent.

http://www.smashingmagazine.com/tag/wordpress/

if it's not on smashingmagazine it probably isn't worth having

What Angstrom shared is a really important point, as usability is the most important feature of any site. There are web visitors who browse with graphics off, and an even larger population are visually impaired in some way. Even the most beautiful and well designed graphic interfaces need to offer an alternative text only version for when images are disabled or when the visitor is colorblind, or at least a method of text based navigation coded prior to the images for audio web readers.

ze2be wrote:Yeah, but I really don't have time. I have two festivals to produce, lots of concerts to play, im in the middle of an album, im running a record label, AND I have a day job to keep me busy. But it pays the rent.

I agree with Tarekith that Dreamweaver isn't really that hard to learn or use for simple site design, if you have the time and attention to put toward it. One good video tutorial and a dedicated weekend or two would likely have you up and running with it fairly quickly - once you knew the HTML and CSS basics. The real issue is your site design, how complicated or fixed it is; like with your After Effects metaphor, just because someone learns how to use Photoshop over a weekend and buys some plugins doesn't mean that they will be able to get the results they are hoping for as easily or quickly as you could, if at all. It could take them days or years. The more fixed the design is in their mind, then the more likely it will be harder to achieve.

Most of the site in your sig could be done with basic HTML and CSS, except for the streaming audio if you wanted it download protected, and the guestbook would require some form of dynamic coding and possibly a database, and would need to be protected from spam bots.

If you did contact my friend, I'm sure that she would translate the integrity of your graphic design, as graphics are important to her too. Another option is to hire someone to build the site for you in a way that wasn't complicated on the back end, and then get Dreamweaver and a tutorial on how to use it so that you could maintain it yourself. This would be a great way to learn the basics, without the responsibility of having to build it from scratch.

Akshara wrote:I agree with Tarekith that Dreamweaver isn't really that hard to learn or use for simple site design, if you have the time and attention to put toward it. One good video tutorial and a dedicated weekend or two would likely have you up and running with it fairly quickly - once you knew the HTML and CSS basics. The real issue is your site design, how complicated or fixed it is; like with your After Effects metaphor, just because someone learns how to use Photoshop over a weekend and buys some plugins doesn't mean that they will be able to get the results they are hoping for as easily or quickly as you could, if at all. It could take them days or years. The more fixed the design is in their mind, then the more likely it will be harder to achieve.

Most of the site in your sig could be done with basic HTML and CSS, except for the streaming audio if you wanted it download protected, and the guestbook would require some form of dynamic coding and possibly a database, and would need to be protected from spam bots.

If you did contact my friend, I'm sure that she would translate the integrity of your graphic design, as graphics are important to her too. Another option is to hire someone to build the site for you in a way that wasn't complicated on the back end, and then get Dreamweaver and a tutorial on how to use it so that you could maintain it yourself. This would be a great way to learn the basics, without the responsibility of having to build it from scratch.

Hmm.. You got me thinking now! Could you PM me your friends email? Im gonna catch some sleep, but ill be back later today.

Angstrom wrote:http://www.smashingmagazine.com/tag/wordpress/

if it's not on smashingmagazine it probably isn't worth having

I found some really nice ones there.. Great, thanks! Ive only been through the template links at Wordpress own homepage. I thought that was about it, for the free ones at least. Smashing magazine seemed great for other purposes as well: graphics, fonts and so on!