Ableton Forum

MarkH wrote: I think the "issue" with quality is only on warped audio, not standard audio files. .

i disagree ...
i think that issues have been raised regarding live's handling
of non-warped audio, as well.

i also cant help but think of all the posts in the forum since version 1.xx
that bring up the issue with crackling, etc in rendered files.
this issue has plagued me in the past and i generally do not use
the warping feature at all.

playback, real-time processing and mixdown are all different
issues here, but i dont think that laziness or user incompetence
are the defining answers...

more two cents...
wm

hmmm, i don't use the render feature myself.
i just record in realtime with the freebie "Tape It 1" recording VST on the end of the mains channel. maybe thats why i've never had issue with the audio engine. Tape It does 24-bit too, check it out. http://silverspike.com/download.html unfortunately its PC only.

Interesting, looked at their page too, isn`t it that like real time option in Cubase ? Did you try the reverb, any good? Live`s does not sound so great and really eats these % in your test. I use my ancient TC instead but would like something better ( that is really stupid while talking reverbs "better"? it is so personal taste, my alltime favourite is the big old Lexicon, any software substitutes, "fakes"?).

i like the live reverb actually, but only at the "first class" setting - which admittedly takes some horsepower.

i havent tried their reverb yet. i also like the TC Native Reverb, i go back and forth between TC's and Live's

i dont know if live .wav recording is an option in cubase, i haven't used Cubase in 5 years... i think the last version i used was VST 3.6

What you mean first class ?
I think that mixdown was the issue with Cubase, it got fixed in Sx or Sx 2, dont know because I hated Cubase anyway for million of reasons till SX 2 which works , so dont care what was the problem, I always use the realtime option. Have to confess that I use the render only as reference before converting to mp3, put it in my Nokia and listening when I go catch some fresh air. I have not done "real" serious mix of my Live projects, so when I talk about the sound is really playback not mixdown.
I wont even bother too much, your solution is like a wire "out" to "in" just virtual, if this is the principle then it is really the safest.
Will check this Tape it 1 tomorrow. Thanks

okay, well i can see what you guys are talkiing about now.
playback is playback. other than the incredibly hot output,
the program is great for this.
my issue has been live's rendering engine, which kills it
as a serious multitrack for me.

also, other than the tapeit, i also use sound forge to record.
i am sure that most audio editors are able to record whatever is
going on through the soundcard...

Rikhyray that was totally not directed at you, guess I've just been sitting here too long seeing time wasted on squabbling, and while there may be minor technical issues there are actually far broader factors out there affecting the picture.
Anyway, apologies again if it sounded directed at you, it was just directed at my frustration...oh and green tea's great, doesn't make your teeth brown or your pee smell funny either! The durex part...I give up

rikhyray wrote:What you mean first class ?

Live's reverb has 3 quality settings.
its under the "global" tab.
you have Economy, Comfort, and First Class.
First Class has far less artifacts, but takes up far more processor.

the live 4 performance test used live's reverb with the "comfort" quality setting.

yea if you are happy with live's output while you are mixing, but unhappy with the final product after using the "render to disk function", then TAPE IT 1 is for you!

muthafunka wrote:Rikhyray that was totally not directed at you, guess I've just been sitting here too long seeing time wasted on squabbling, and while there may be minor technical issues there are actually far broader factors out there affecting the picture.
Anyway, apologies again if it sounded directed at you, it was just directed at my frustration...oh and green tea's great, doesn't make your teeth brown or your pee smell funny either! The durex part...I give up

No need for apology, my bad I am not into emoticon language, the tea and durex part were sort of indication. It is hard to get good green tea outside Japan, and once tried real thing, no compromise. Just with all these mac><pc , bush themes what`s wrong with a "sound" subject.
It was worth starting this, at least for me, lots of theory and some very practical stuff. Honestly most I learned from this forum ever.
I am so impatient Adam, and curious that I tried it all now. I like the tape it - bigger display, not so hectic like Lives own, will use it, naturally found out about First class, to, have to record with it some more but of course with the higher setting it is something else. I like that pragmatic approach of Ableton all these effects, instruments are highly usefull, and I cannot say the same about most of other VSTs with millions of options and parameters.
Thanks everybody for fantastic contribution,my teeth ( suffering Indian tee, espresso and Cuban rum and cigars) send thank you Tokyo, will try to find better green tea.

On a somewhat related note...
Definatly check out sonalksis's reverbs, they are both of exceptional utility. I especially like Room Machine for smaller room ambiences, and dont miss out on Ruby Tube, a great (basic) tube sim overdrive/hard knee limiter (both of these are FREE!). Reverb.it is a good low processor overhead general use verb (nothing too crazy here) but not a bad tool for ones arsenal.

a New Audio Engine in most cases just means:
- new features
- new bugs

In some cases the level might be changed by the audio application, but that should be it. Zero differences. If not you would hear all sorts of audio clicks and pops in sound.

People who say 32 bit floiting point sounds better are talking bull. Your soundcard can not play 32 floiting sounds, so they are converted to 16 or 24 bit. Floating would only be nice if you want to record a live input (fixed bit: 16 or 24) with effects (32 floating).

Most people can't hear the difference between 16 and 24 bit, with or without dithering noise. If you want to able to, you need a very well made ADDA convertor and revealing speakers. And good ears.

Actually i can hear a difference between 24 and 16 bit but anything above 24/48 and I can't tell the difference what so ever myself.
And I can't be arsed with dithering I go through an analog desk to a Tascam CDR (free standing unit) and just record the ouput old school style.
Saves a lot of grief and the levels are easily controlled that way.
I love the sound of Live I do not like the sound of my mixes exported into Adobe Audition then dithered down to 16 bit for some reason.
Straight out the mackie into the Tascam and I get exactly what I hear through my monitors at damn good levels without loads of compression overkill either.

Got me thinking now too, was having a look at Tape It thinking ''doh, PC only' when I realised I bought Audio Hijack Pro...time to give it a go and do a little comparison. Thanks!

yea when i switched back from mac to PC, the first hurdle was finding something to replace audio hijack. sure there's Total Recorder, but i wasnt pleased with its quality, and you couldnt load it as a plugin. there's Anarchy Sound Recorder but i hated the interface, it seemed so... Alpha. my friend DJ Shiva found Tape It and now i wont use anything else. its great, never had a single problem with it. it can do 24 bit, and for all you discerning peeps, 32bit floating as well