[OT] Is USA and The World safer now due to Bush?

[forge]

the bizarre thing is - to the rest of the world it seems absurd and astonishing that an American can really honestly even question that. It was absurd that he got in in the first place. When he was first voted in A german magazine had on it's cover a picture of dubbya dressed as a cowboy riding a nuclear missile as if it was a rodeo - quite amusing and safely described how pretty much the whole world saw it. It was jaw dropping that someone who cant even say Nuclear would become the most powerful man in the world.

All it said to the world is is what the previous poster said - All americans need to live abroad for at least a year because your media would appear to be amazingly shallow and contrived to make it possible to have a man like bush even close to the whitehouse. To the rest of the world it seems like a joke. Especially when Clinton nearly got impeached for getting a blowjob.

Absurd. For god's sakes america - watch some foreign TV stations at least, watch and believe michael moore because he's one of the few provocative voices of our times - lookup John Pilger the journalist and Vote that fucking moron out - if you collectively let him in again you truly deserve the decline empires inevitably get

[m-laboratories.net]

if you collectively let [bush] in again you truly deserve the decline empires inevitably get

I don't think this statement is helpful or even true.

Do you really believe in such a large group of people "collectively deserving" something? That's pretty frightening, my friend.

But I think I know what you mean. America has a responsibility to the world, a responsibility that Bush has not honored. Unfortunately, the entire ideology behind the Republican party (self-reliance) makes this responsibility to poorer/less powerful nations a hard sell. We even refuse to care for our own poor!

Or did I misunderstand?

[smutek]

A lot of my friends joke about leaving the USA if Bush gets elected. That is exactly the opposite of what citizens should be doing - we need more likeminded people to move here and vote. If liberals leave, things will just get even more fucked up....

Indeed.

That is one of my dilemas, my sense of patriotism and love of my country vs. (my wife and I plan to have kids one day and) do I want to raise children here? My love of America vs. my love of my family and myself, my fear of Americas future vs. my hopes for my own future.

Do you understand what I am saying?

[Martyn]

Personally, I hope Kerry gets in just so we can all see if anything changes at all, it's the only way to tell just how much of a puppet the elected figurehead actually is. I've a feeling that not much would change.

It constantly amazes me how we (in the uk) take it pretty much for granted that there are only a couple of choices of who to vote for every time elections come around. There should really be a 'none of the above' box to put your cross in. I think in this country, there'd be a landslide in favour of nobody on the list.

It's all scarey shit for sure!

Aparently there used to be an old chinese curse that said; "may you live in interesting times"

I can think of better words than 'interesting' to describe the current scenario.

[m-laboratories.net]

That is one of my dilemas, my sense of patriotism and love of my country vs. (my wife and I plan to have kids one day and) do I want to raise children here?

Yes, I know exactly what you are saying. Adding kids to the equation raises the stakes, however the answer is still the same.

Look at the correlation of human IQ and reproductive rates. In countries such as Sweden there is no correlation [Scand J Soc Med. 1991 Sep;19(3):187-9.] - people with above average intelligence are reproducing at the same rate as people with below average intelligence.

The situation in the US is different. Bright, well-educated American women are having less children than their uneducated counterparts [Atlantic Monthly, May 1989 v263 n5 p72(7)]

Admittedly I am traveling into some dangerous eugenics-like territory here, and it should be stated that there is no correlation between political orientation and intelligence in the US (at least not according to any reputable sources I have been able locate). Also, greater education does not necessarily mean greater intelligence.

However, I think it's clear enough what would happen if people "aware" of the problems were to leave and have kids elsewhere.

Interestingly, several animal species have been seen to voluntarily abstain from reproduction in situations of immediate danger - lack of food, or suitable habitat. Or because of living in captivity. Perhaps the psychological equivalent is occuring in the US?

[peeddrroo]

one could tell this is a musician's forum...
i mean look at this conversation: shifting slowly from GeorgeW and US elections to best places for human reproduction...


there is some ppl whose music i'd definitely like to hear.

[basetwo]

Bush and many republicans claim and seem to think The World and or the USA is safer now then before 9/11 or less likely to have a terror attacks due to the War in Iraq. I kind of doubt this fact as it has only caused more out rage and anger towards the US and now they find 380 tons of missing nuclear and bomb making material in possibly the hands of Terror groups..Why and where did this go??

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/ ... index.html

What do you think?

The premise of your question is partially flawed....

If you asked if I thought the world is on its way to being safer, I'd say "Yes." Bush isn't claiming the world is safer, per se. He is claiming that we are doing something about the threat, that terrorists are being hindered in their efforts and he's right. Also because of this the chances of an attack are less likely, as you have said. These terrorists and their support systems need to be utterly destroyed.

I'm going to fill out my mail-in ballot and I'll vote for Kerry before I vote against him!

[AdamJay]

the second bush stepped into office, our nation became less safe.
The Washington Post reported that in the 8 months of his presidency before September 11, 2001, George W. Bush was on vacation 42% of the time.
a decent chunk of that 42% was him taking all of August 2001 off for vacation as well. Our guard was down, and when you look at the FACTS, it becomes plausible that the administration did, in some form or another, ALLOW 911 to happen. Just look at how much control they've had since 911.
Bush has been quoted many times in 2002 as saying "it would be easier if this was a dictatorship and i was the dictator"
well that's my gripe about his policy and control.

let's move on to his character flaws.
This man doesn't give a rat's ass about anyone in this country that hasn't greased his palms. He ESPECIALLY doesn't give a shi# about the men and women in the military that are DYING for his administration's decision to invade a sovereign nation that was (now proven to be) NOT a threat.
George W. Bush is the FIRST president in the history of the United States to NOT ATTEND a military funeral during his presidency.
His administration has tried to play it off as an act that would "decrease morale in our country and military". What a muppet.
These "kids" who can't afford college because our society has slowly but surely made the gap between lower class and upper class wider every day (no thanks to those tax cuts as$hole), go into the Military so they can pay for their education in exchange for DEFENDING our nation, not ATTACKING another. Yet he can't go to a single funeral and pay his respect for a soldier sacrificing his life for his own administration's decisions. I'm surprised his mother hasn't slapped the shit out of him for that.

I can't think of a worse man to head our nation, nor could the history books remember a worse man that has in the past.
The only explanation i have for why so many people in this country "beleive" in him is that they relate to him. Aside from that it is politics as usual, scare tactics, and "staying the course" which is more like a path to world war. Every Gay/Lesbian activist group in the US will tell you that gay marriage was hardly on their radar in the last year as an issue, let alone their agenda. The republicans brought the issue up as to further divide our nation and in the hope that they would win reelection. Fortunately Kerry didn't bite.
In post WWI Germany many folks related to Hitler, and its too hard not to see the parallels between Hitler and G.W.Bush. Both with radical fascist views, both garnered alot of support because folks could relate to them. Both had a demographical enemy in the cross hairs, Hitler had anyone not Arian, and Bush has anyone Arabic. Bush is the Hitler for the 21st century.

don't even get me started on this flu shot crap either.
talk about a breach in national security. this is a bilogical attack on our people that could be prevented. We'll lose 35,000 to 40,000 americans from the flu this season, possibly more with the shortage of influenza vaccine. Yet we'll spend 100 Billion to go to Iraq. Explain to me the logic in that.

[m-laboratories.net]

Bush isn't claiming the world is safer, per se. He is claiming that we are doing something about the threat, that terrorists are being hindered in their efforts and he's right. These terrorists and their support systems need to be utterly destroyed.

I'll respectfully disagree:

Bush has regularly said that the world is safer now than it was, primarily due to removing Saddam Hussein from power. There's no reason to think that he means we are only "in the process" of making the world safer. He claims both that we are safer and that we are becoming more safe every day.

An exact quote for you from CNN's "Late Edition" with Wolf Blitzer on 6/27/2004, where Wolf cued a clip of Bush:

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: "I do believe the world is a safer place and becoming a safer place. I know that a free Iraq is going to be necessary, part of changing the world."

A safer place AND becoming a safer place.

One half of that statement is incontrovertibly false, no matter what you think wll happen in the future.

[special ed]

i think i will kill myself now. then i will be safe from this world and its disease called civilization. i have now sunk below apathy. bush is a pussy and a murderer. kerry is NOT the anti-bush. americans are for the most part too complacent to revolt. the rest of the world is fucked up to. there is nothing anyone can do anymore. we could kill all the bush-votes before the election, but then we would be just as bad as them. anyone that votes for bush for religious reasons has no real concept of god, after all, who would jesus bomb? i would never want to bring children into this mess either, which sucks because i love children. the reason americans are so quick to go to war is because they never had the bombs fall on there own backyard barbeque, unlike europeans, asians, africans and whoever else had or has war going on in their backyard. fuck bush, fuck kerry, fuck america, fuck the world, its all going to be destroyed anyway. mankind is evil, nature takes no consideration to its victims either. life sucks. i feel like im in a nightmare and i just want to wake up. to the people that still think intelligently with their brains, i got news for you, youre outnumbered a million to one, and they got all the weapons to. i give up.

[Darrel855]

I hope all people with an attitude like yours gives up speacial ed(or should I say sped)if its not one thing its another its been like that since the dawn of civilization deall with it and find someone and make a difference .

[forge]

i think i will kill myself now. then i will be safe from this world and its disease called civilization. i have now sunk below apathy. bush is a pussy and a murderer. kerry is NOT the anti-bush. americans are for the most part too complacent to revolt. the rest of the world is fucked up to. there is nothing anyone can do anymore. we could kill all the bush-votes before the election, but then we would be just as bad as them. anyone that votes for bush for religious reasons has no real concept of god, after all, who would jesus bomb? i would never want to bring children into this mess either, which sucks because i love children. the reason americans are so quick to go to war is because they never had the bombs fall on there own backyard barbeque, unlike europeans, asians, africans and whoever else had or has war going on in their backyard. fuck bush, fuck kerry, fuck america, fuck the world, its all going to be destroyed anyway. mankind is evil, nature takes no consideration to its victims either. life sucks. i feel like im in a nightmare and i just want to wake up. to the people that still think intelligently with their brains, i got news for you, youre outnumbered a million to one, and they got all the weapons to. i give up.

Somebody needs a hug!

Honestly dude it's just life - we'll all be dead in the end you may as well forget this shit and enjoy the ride. It's planet of the apes - there's no certainty - no god - we're just a bunch of animals on a planet who've had a good spell of climate conditions gave us enough time to evlove and make up an amazingly fascinating collection of civilisations.

But yellowstone national park - the world's largest volcano is 30thousand years overdue a major eruption which happened in the past like clockwork every 600thousand years and it still lets off geysers every 90 minutes like clockwork. The thing that's going to wipe us out is the earth. - The statistics undeniably show the largest threat to humans is climate change and not only has the largest consumer of fossil fuels refused to reverse the behaviour, it has actually increased and carries on doing so.

If Bush really wanted to do anything about US national security he would have signed that Kyoto agreement.

[forge]

if you collectively let [bush] in again you truly deserve the decline empires inevitably get

I don't think this statement is helpful or even true.

Do you really believe in such a large group of people "collectively deserving" something? That's pretty frightening, my friend.

But I think I know what you mean. America has a responsibility to the world, a responsibility that Bush has not honored. Unfortunately, the entire ideology behind the Republican party (self-reliance) makes this responsibility to poorer/less powerful nations a hard sell. We even refuse to care for our own poor!

Or did I misunderstand?

Collectively deserving "the decline empires inevitably get" is not starving to death - which a staggering number of people in the world are - I live in Britain the Largest ever declined empire which, while a little infuriating still has a comfortable standard of living - America's been having it's day and already in decline - it just might mean sharing a bit more with the rest of the world because the rest of the world is getting fed up with the imbalance - and that makes me a bit hot around the collar because the Country I live in Pissed alot of pepople off for a long time and America's just carried on the family business.

AdamJay was right Bush is the Hitler of the 21st century.

Exactly why we're in this war together. America and Britains empires were both built on slavery and amassed alot of wealth so that they now have alot of the world imprisoned by capitalism and debt. Communism failed - what is there left to try and con the masses into fighting over but fear of religious nuts ruining the lifestyle we've spent so long stealing.

sooner or later we're going to have to accept the fact that the imbalance on this planet is obscene and it shouldn't be like this and if something pisses somebody off enough to fly planes into buildings then maybe it's actually time to sit up and think about what it is. But it can't work like that because the cause is greed and people don't want to give it up once they have it. Not until the oilwells run dry.

[special ed]

its just that there is not really any difference that any of us can make at this point, an individual cant really make an impact. it takes an army to change things, and the way things are today, it would have to be changed with force, after all it has taken force to stop all of histories tyrants, whether it be ceasar, napolean, hitler or "w" himself. the way it is, we dont have the weaponry, and even if we did, i dont think any of us would really want to use it, because we would then be no different than the bushies of this world.

I hope all people with an attitude like yours gives up speacial ed(or should I say sped)if its not one thing its another its been like that since the dawn of civilization deall with it and find someone and make a difference .

i hope all people with an attitude like yours end up in the carnage of the next "terror" attack or disaster darrell885( or should i say douchebag) yes it has always been one thing after another, one asshole controling the masses after another its been like that since the dawn of civilization, to deal with it youre talking genocide of practically the whole world, you are no different than bush, people like you mr douchebage think that this is the way it was intended to be, so you just add more fuel to the fire. i can tell by the way you just say " if its not one thing its another its been that way since the dawn of civilization". you got a fucking plan to change things so everyone can live happily ever after? you want to control the world to make everyone think like you? you sound like a fucking hitler wanna be little bitch. you say find someone make a difference? everytime i give a homeless person money to eat for the day im doing something to make a difference in just one small instance, thats all i can do. to change the whole world it takes tyranny and facism, whether its right or left winged. you should know that by studying and observing history and the world around you. now shut the fuck up and go vote for your next tyrant. they are all the same, and they will get what they deserve, just like the people that support them. take your head out of fantasyland in your ass douchebag885. this is reality we are living in. its people like you that think they have all the answers and then want to go impose them on everyone else that has been the disease of human civilization from the get go. go die you nazi pig.

[AdamJay]

help·less

1. Unable to help oneself; powerless or incompetent.
2. Lacking support or protection: They were left helpless in the storm.
3. Impossible to control; involuntary: helpless laughter.
4. Special Ed.