Ableton Forum

McQ714 wrote:

SubFunk wrote:on genelec 8020s i make you mixes that have so much bass you will throw up from it in a club because it's gonna massage the shit out of you.

that may be so.. but you couldn't hear the fucking bass when you were mixing because you're on a 4" monitor woofer and relied on your eyes instead of your ears.

quit being so passive aggressive toward people that comment on here. you only know what works best for you! not what's best for others. don't present your opinion as fact. it just makes you seem like a conceited asshole!

wrong! (well that is true for all the people that never learned how to listen, because it is there, in the case of 8020s even with bloody 4 inches, when working with monitors doing mixdowns)

and double wrong!

i just state that it is bullshit about the need of some below 60hz region of bass to make and mix good dance tracks. simply utter bullshit.
which is a fact and not a single personal opinion. (and i mentioned that it most probably comes across as a being a dick, but i am not i can assure you, you don't even really know me and my knowledge in that particular area)


p.s. i am used to it.

besides, you can take from it what you want (or anyone else for that matter) it's a free place isn't it? i open my mouth when i know shit, simple.
if you or anyone else takes it / believes me is entirely up to you / him / her.

in the end of the day you can buy a double 18" sub and put it underneath your desk in your studio, i don't care.
i can even recommend you some good ones, if you like?

a) i would never buy a double 18" sub for a room as small as mine.
b) if i'm wrong and you don't need to hear sub 60 hz, why do they make subs? why do they offer speaker with more dynamic range? why are the 8020s so damn cheap if that's really all you need? and how, if you set an eq to filter out everything above 66 hz and heard nothing coming from your 4" monitors would you be able to accurately mix the silence of that earth shattering bass that isn't being heard into something beautifully musical? it's not about making bass... it's about making bass sound good! and if you can't hear it, how would you know? that's like being a deaf dj... if you can't hear it, how do you know the beat is matched? waveforms only tell you so much. you have to rely on your ears, right???

and c) here's how i see it... i have the two sets of monitors i mentioned before, but most of mixing is done with headphones because i'm a considerate neighbor. i have the ultrasone proline 650s and the ultrasone DJ1 pros. they both sound good but there's a purpose for both. the proline 650s while being a more expensive pair just don't hit the lows i need to hear... no matter what!!! i'll start off with those, but switch out often, especially when i'm layering my drum and/or bass sounds. i won't present this as fact because maybe your ears are more functional than mine, but the size of the driver between those two pairs of headphones, even though only a 10 mm difference in size, makes a huge difference in sound.

McQ714 wrote:a) i would never buy a double 18" sub for a room as small as mine.
b) if i'm wrong and you don't need to hear sub 60 hz, why do they make subs?

because people will buy them.

you don't need curb feelers or fuzzy dice either but they make that shit.

@ McQ714,

look subs have their use and right, all i did is pointing out 'needs' and 'sense of circumstances'

the OP asked 6" vs 8" and i pointed out that the sense and reasons of purchase depend a lot on room size and listening distance, i never said 8" inch does not make sense in general, but that under certain coNditions it is not going to be the better choice, nor that subs are bad (i only said they are much harder to set up), and i said that it is a great missconception / believe that you need bass heavy monitoring to make clean deep bass heavy dancetrack mixes, and beautiful sounding for that matter, that is all.

and the double 18" was a joke.

i never said that a real deep going large monitorsystem is something bad, but as long as you don't have real good conditions for setting it up properly, it will be worse then a small not so deep going system set up properly in very good conditions and that is room size plus listening distance.

That is really all i wanted to point out to the OP

@ SubFunk

this is you being a dick...

but anyone saying you can't mix good dance music on 5'' because of lack of bass, can't mix for shit no matter what system he uses.

all that i'm saying is that if you can't hear it, you can't mix it! i'm not saying to throw an 18" sub in a 3m x 3m room. see what i did there? i used the metric system because i'm trying to make a point you'll understand.
the ability, or in-ability as you would put it, to mix a signal that you can't hear is no feat for an amateur to take on. and being that he doesn't know which monitors he should get leads me to believe that he is an amateur. As am I, I'll point out. But I still prefer to hear everything my mix is playing for me. Not just what my monitors will allow me to hear.

OP - get both at a store, try them and return what doesn't work.


McQ - I think there's a point to be made that once an experienced mixer knows the faults of his monitors he can mix around that. take the Yamaha NS10s, they're not flat, just predictable.

Sub Funk's cool and knows this stuff. you've been a cool poster about this stuff too. you two will work it out. if someone's going to get edgy around here, why not audio? it's cool shit!!

@ McQ714, we talk slightly about different things here, just leave it like that in peace, i answered the OPs question, i pointed the pros and cons in respect to room & listening distance situation out wether to choose this or that and he can make from it what he wants.

as usual.
My friend has a small room, empty, no accoustic treatment. I warned him that 8'' could be too heavy on the bass. Still, he bought krks 8''. Now he regrets a bit, and think my HS-50 are better suited for mixing. We did a 5 hours session, and altough it does sound really good, it sounds too much like a super hi-fi. After the session, I felt like I had my head in a subwoofer for the last 5 hours. Don't get me wrong, we also could catch stuff that we don't notice on regular speakers, and I'm sure they can sound great in a better environment.

So, just be reasonable. But at the end it's only a matter of taste and it's your money.

SubFunk wrote:i just state that it is bullshit about the need of some below 60hz region of bass to make and mix good dance tracks. simply utter bullshit.

I wouldn't have used the same words but anyway, you're right IMHO.

smaucher wrote:

SubFunk wrote:i just state that it is bullshit about the need of some below 60hz region of bass to make and mix good dance tracks. simply utter bullshit.

I wouldn't have used the same words but anyway, you're right IMHO.

well, i was born with a big mouth.