3/3 time signature

[yur2die4]

Simplified:

Top number = beats
Bottom = grid

(think about how Ableton uses the 1.1.1, 1.2.1, 1.3.1, 1.4.1 etc. to count beats)

[roothewhirl]

@MPGK

That's a very cool video. It seems like with some creative delay, a lot of poly rhythms can be "faked", as well.

-Ryan

[MPGK]

@MPGK

That's a very cool video. It seems like with some creative delay, a lot of poly rhythms can be "faked", as well.

Yep, these minimalists sure were crazy guys. It's fun and a good exercise to practice this stuff with other people. Also, these rhythms automatically find their way into your own music if you tinker with them now and then.

[Machinesworking]

Only DAW I know of that ever did all possible time signatures in the same song, on different tracks etc. was the killed by Gibson, Opcode Studio Vision.
The rest use a more traditional approach that works for most people. You can through a combination of triplets and stretching MIDI notes come up with most of what Studio Vision did, but that's definitely step recording and math.

[MPGK]

I'd be happy to have an advanced note value option in the editor you can switch on/off in the preferences, so you can type in things like 1/128 or quintuplets or septuplets (or whatever 1/7 notes are called) and stuff in the editor instead of having to to this in external MIDI sequencer and export/import... sure costs a lot of time.
Much more important than independent time signatures for each track, I think. In the end, it's all 2's and 3's and you can somehow push it together.

[chapelier fou]

If you have 4/4, you have 4 beats. If you have 12/8 you have 12 beats. If you have 27/2 you have 27 beats. All of which are 'per measure'

Wrong. If the bottom number can be divided by 3 (exept 3),then the number of beats per bar is the top number divided by 3. Each beat value being the length represented by the bottom number, multiplied by 3.

12/8: 4 beats, each beat = 3 1/8 notes.
9/16: 3 beats, eachbeat = 3 1/16 notes.

[wasoota]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_signa ... .22_meters

Irrational Meters
These are time signatures, used for, "so-called 'irrational' measure lengths,"[7], which have a denominator which is not a power of two (1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, etc.). These are, "based on beats expressed in terms of fractions of full beats in the prevailing tempo," for example 3/10 or 5/24[7]. For example, where 4/4 implies a bar construction of four quarter-parts of a whole note (i.e., four quarter notes), 4/3 implies a bar construction of four third-parts of it.

These signatures are only of utility when juxtaposed with other signatures with varying denominators; a piece written entirely in 4/3, say, could be more legibly written out in 4/4.

So it's safe to say that e.g. 4/3 is conceivable (and certainly "exists") and might actually make sense if you are making particular time signature changes within a piece, but not if the whole piece is to be written in one time signature?


I'm with MPGK though that an advanced note value mode would be very nice and open up a lot of creative options. Live's metrics still have a very "Dancefloor DJ" feel to them, even though IMO Live has moved well beyond that. It's holding the 'experiemtal plattform' angle of the product back.

If your head doesn't hurt yet I recommend this here, to see where it all may fall into place:

http://www.vai.com/LittleBlackDots/tempomental.html

[chapelier fou]

Interesting !

[MPGK]

Thanks wasoota, I had no idea time signatures like that even existed. I'm familiar with all sorts of concepts and componists, Lutos?awski, Bartók, Reich, Cage... didn't stumble over anything like a 4/3 though. Did I get that right: a 4/3 would consist of four beats equal to four half note triplets of the 4/4 before it? (guess I'll just have to try it out)
Still I don't think it's all that important to integrate this into a DAW.

[MPGK]

Okay, good thing I've got a terrible cold, I actually have time to play with stuff like this.

Two 4/4 bars and one (what I imagine to be a) 4/3 bar.
This is how it sounds:
43.wav - 4.64MB

And this is how the drum clip looks:



I just picked out sounds randomly, I know it sounds like crap.

Bottom line: it somehow works, and these odd denominator rhythms could prove a hit in tourette discos worldwide.

[longjohns]

i'm happy to have been proved wrong about the existence of the odd denominators..

interesting composition there

i would describe it as 2 bars of 4/4 at one tempo, and one bar of 4/4 at a slower tempo

[longjohns]

also the delay on the hats distracts from fully experiencing the rhythm, at least in the context of it's usage as an example

[roothewhirl]

Are you guys familiar with metric modulation at all? I think Dabrye uses it on this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYZ5uL35kpU

Hear how it feels like the rhythm is slowly melting apart? The first one happens at about 0:19. I believe he changes the hats to triplets on the last part of the measure for that (as well as some off-time placed kicks and snares). I recreated it exactly in Ableton awhile back. I'll post screens of the sequence in Ableton later, maybe.

Cheers!

[MPGK]

i'm happy to have been proved wrong about the existence of the odd denominators..

interesting composition there

i would describe it as 2 bars of 4/4 at one tempo, and one bar of 4/4 at a slower tempo

Do I detect sarcasm? You were actually right about the existence. Doesn't mean it should be implemented in Live, but it's a fresh new way of thinking out of the box, I'll try to put it to better use in the coming months. And yeah, feels like that. "Über-Breakbeat".

also the delay on the hats distracts from fully experiencing the rhythm, at least in the context of it's usage as an example

I can imagine that. Here's the track without any delay whatsoever on the drums:
43_withoutthedelaywhichdistractedlongjohnsfromfullyexperiencingtherhythm.wav - 4.64MB

Are you guys familiar with metric modulation at all? I think Dabrye uses it on this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYZ5uL35kpU

Gotta love Ghostly roothewhirl!
Hmmm, but the track is pretty straight, just a few triplets and somehow oddly placed breaks... no metric modulation whatsoever, the whole thing happens in 4/4.

[flippo]

Are you guys familiar with metric modulation at all?

yess love this shit; I've got a few bits that change time sig mid tune.

(if you are interested)

Kept on soundcloud, mostly in 11/8, but the intro switches from quite quickly between 3/4 and 4/4.
big grey spheres on soundcloud swaps between 3/4 and 4/4/ a couple of times.
.001 on myspace goes 4/4 > 7/8 > 4/4

I've another one called Basil which I've not uploaded anywhere but it changes from 4/4 @ 140bpm to 3/4 @ about 105 or so. The bar lengths are exactly the same (in seconds, not beats), so for DJ'ing purposes I can just interpret it as a polyrythm instead of metric change and keep mixing 4/4 140bpm over it with a nice trippy staggering tripplet feel.

Quite nifty little DJ trick to beat-match odd and even metric tunes ontop of eachother to create a polyrythm and change the tempo up at the same time without it at all sounding like a train wreck (providing you're not too drunk). Really not enough of this kinda stuff in electrica generally imho!

Now that I'm playing in ableton instead of DJing I would like to start using it more intensely in writing, keen for many examples if people have them?

Not sure if that Darbye example is exactly a metric change, but the feeling those changes you are refering too create are amazing non-the-less; Definitely captures the essence of that type of thing.