Help Me with a live rig

[bigmonster7]

that is great!


but what if I want to run my guitar through the mac (i.e. to create a loop delay, effects, etc...)

[bigmonster7]

This is getting much better for me. If it helps, I will also explain an example of how I envision to perform:..

Start out with some beats (digital blips and bleeps) mixed with a drum kit sounds on manufactured delays in logic or ableton (which I can do all of this via the midi keyboard into the macbook as of right now) using ableton/logic sounds.

Then eventually blend those beats in with live guitar or keyboard piano.

Another portion of a show, I would want to use the foot controller to start stop the beats I created and use the controller as a form of loop station.

I am currently reading up on what aspects the foot controller can actually bring me.

[UKRuss]

To be fair, you're not doing anything that isn't being done succesfully all over the place, and the connectivity that Mike shows is how it works. You just need a decent foot controller which you can map very easily to things in Live and you're off.

The key to your set up for me is getting the right audio/midi interface. Splash out and get somethign like the ultralite. It has multiple audio ins, firewire or USB to your computer and has Midi in, daisy chain all your other midi kit into that and the job is done.

Guitar, Piano, Mic, midi keyboard, midi foot controller, midi drums, kazoo, platypus > Ultralite > Computer

Done.

[mikemc]

@UKRuss -- mebbe I'll make it into a t-shirt.

that is great!


but what if I want to run my guitar through the mac (i.e. to create a loop delay, effects, etc...)

Again, the "right way" would be to upgrade your interface to one that has multiple inputs/outputs. If you are serious about looping things on their own tracks, this is what you need to do.

The "cheap way" given what you have now would be to run your guitar into one channel of your existing interface, have it going to its own track in Live, and mix everything else coming thru the mixer down to mono on its own channel, which is also very 1960s.

If you want to see how you can use looper with a midi controller, there is this pitiful, boring and painful demo video. The controller is a pad controller, but it should be easy to see how the pads are analogous to the buttons on the FCB 1010.

http://vimeo.com/5886013

[bigmonster7]

To be fair, you're not doing anything that isn't being done succesfully all over the place, and the connectivity that Mike shows is how it works. You just need a decent foot controller which you can map very easily to things in Live and you're off.

The key to your set up for me is getting the right audio/midi interface. Splash out and get somethign like the ultralite. It has multiple audio ins, firewire or USB to your computer and has Midi in, daisy chain all your other midi kit into that and the job is done.

Guitar, Piano, Mic, midi keyboard, midi foot controller, midi drums, kazoo, platypus > Ultralite > Computer

Done.

I know. I just get mixed up. So with the setup you mentioned just now... how do I get the sound out from my computer (with everything going through) to monitor or amp?

I think this is where my misunderstanding is coming from? Do the interfaces act as an input/output? I.e. load everything into the interface ---->computer, and then the sounds, loops, etc. I make with my computer, get sent back into the interface output?

[bigmonster7]

(side note, when I run my guitar through the m-audio fast track, the sound only comes out through ear phone)... When I am doing this, I have my ear phones plugged into my macbook. When I plug it into the interface itself, the sound level is low.

sounds like I need a better interface.. would you agree?

Or would another option be to get mixer and run the mixer into the interface?



My other questions would be what is the difference between using an interface and/or a small mixer?

I think I am starting to understand how the interfaces work.

[UKRuss]

I.e. load everything into the interface ---->computer, and then the sounds, loops, etc. I make with my computer, get sent back into the interface output?

The answer to this is yes, thats exactly how it works.

On your other queries, interfaces themselves have internal mixers too so the sound you hear through your computer output for phones is not the same as the one on your interface and you have to adjust the levels accordingly on your interface, or interface mixer software. This is independent to Live.

The reason a mixer came up was to allow you to retain your existing equipment. But I think it is limiting because all your audio will get summed together by the mixer and be presented as one audio input to your computer, meaning its all mixed togther in Live.(UNless you always record each instrument at different times to each other in which case this approacjh is fine, but I am assuming you sing as you play)

The interface multiple input upgrade is better becasue you can keep all your audio sources (piano/Mic/Guitar) separate in separate tracks in Live, which then allows you to loop them independtly and apply effects to them independtly (you may want guitar rig on your guitar, altiverb on your vox and Chorus and delay on your piano) and of course trigger the clips via your footpedal independtly.

Want to drop the piano loop out, no problem, click, the vox and guitar keep running, bring the piano back in? no problem. Click, done.

nice and easy.

[bigmonster7]

I.e. load everything into the interface ---->computer, and then the sounds, loops, etc. I make with my computer, get sent back into the interface output?

The answer to this is yes, thats exactly how it works.

On your other queries, interfaces themselves have internal mixers too so the sound you hear through your computer output for phones is not the same as the one on your interface and you have to adjust the levels accordingly on your interface, or interface mixer software. This is independent to Live.

The reason a mixer came up was to allow you to retain your existing equipment. But I think it is limiting because all your audio will get summed together by the mixer and be presented as one audio input to your computer, meaning its all mixed togther in Live.(UNless you always record each instrument at different times to each other in which case this approacjh is fine, but I am assuming you sing as you play)

The interface multiple input upgrade is better becasue you can keep all your audio sources (piano/Mic/Guitar) separate in separate tracks in Live, which then allows you to loop them independtly and apply effects to them independtly (you may want guitar rig on your guitar, altiverb on your vox and Chorus and delay on your piano) and of course trigger the clips via your footpedal independtly.

Want to drop the piano loop out, no problem, click, the vox and guitar keep running, bring the piano back in? no problem. Click, done.

nice and easy.

awesome... glad that I am making progress!

so to further on in discussion...

Options are: 1. Get a mixer to run through my current interface. This will lead me to only route my instruments to one channel at a time.. (i.e. if I want to switch to my piano channel, I will need to do it manually or create a trigger with pedal board)

2. Get a new interface with multiple inputs. This why I can have multiple channels ready to roll at any given point in time.

3. (is this an option?) Get a mixer, and do mixer ---->computer via usb? and run each line into its respective channel, and then have the current interface act as audio output? so interface would be computer---->interface?


I think I have pretty much found the common ground of what everyone is saying.

[UKRuss]

1 and 2 are correct.

3 is better acheived if you buy a mixer that is also an interface, but then they start to get pricey. But if you are in the market for something like that then I like the look of the Mackie range such as the 1220i, or similar like Korg Zero 4 etc. I think these may be overkill for you though.

2 is the way to go.

[bigmonster7]

1 and 2 are correct.

3 is better acheived if you buy a mixer that is also an interface, but then they start to get pricey. But if you are in the market for something like that then I like the look of the Mackie range such as the 1220i, or similar like Korg Zero 4 etc. I think these may be overkill for you though.

2 is the way to go.

any recommendations (besides ultralite?)

[mikemc]

I would recommend that you go to a music gear website, like http://sweetwater.com and look in the interfaces category with a price range starting at $200 up to the max you are willing to pay.

[edit]
http://www.sweetwater.com/c695--USB_Audio_Interfaces
http://www.sweetwater.com/c683--FireWir ... Interfaces

This will give you an idea of whatfeature sets that are available for what price, you get an idea of what features are most useful to you, and you should be able to come up with some candidate choices.

For example, this is an excellent feature set for the price: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/US1641/

However, before you consider purchasing it would be best to find someone *with a computer identical to or very similar to* the one you are using, including OS version, who has used it with Live, and get their experiences. This cannot be stressed enough. Well maybe... no, no; it cannot.

Then come back on this forum and search the general section for discussions on those candidates. You will see good bad and ugly on all of them, but you should get a good sense of people's experience.

Don't post a thread asking "what interface is best?" because you will find thousands of those already on the forum, many of them chock full of inanity.

[edit] ah, one thing to note. If you have a midisport Uno, you may not need any additional MIDI, because if you have a kybd with MIDI in and out/thru, you should be able to plug that in via the Uno to your computer, and then the FCB into the kybd. Changing the channel on either the kybd or the FCB will keep them discrete.

But you have to decide whether or not you want midi and audio together on your interface, or just more audio inputs and use the Uno henceforth.

[bigmonster7]

I would recommend that you go to a music gear website, like http://sweetwater.com and look in the interfaces category with a price range starting at $200 up to the max you are willing to pay.

[edit]
http://www.sweetwater.com/c695--USB_Audio_Interfaces
http://www.sweetwater.com/c683--FireWir ... Interfaces

This will give you an idea of whatfeature sets that are available for what price, you get an idea of what features are most useful to you, and you should be able to come up with some candidate choices.

For example, this is an excellent feature set for the price: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/US1641/

However, before you consider purchasing it would be best to find someone *with a computer identical to or very similar to* the one you are using, including OS version, who has used it with Live, and get their experiences. This cannot be stressed enough. Well maybe... no, no; it cannot.

Then come back on this forum and search the general section for discussions on those candidates. You will see good bad and ugly on all of them, but you should get a good sense of people's experience.

Don't post a thread asking "what interface is best?" because you will find thousands of those already on the forum, many of them chock full of inanity.

[edit] ah, one thing to note. If you have a midisport Uno, you may not need any additional MIDI, because if you have a kybd with MIDI in and out/thru, you should be able to plug that in via the Uno to your computer, and then the FCB into the kybd. Changing the channel on either the kybd or the FCB will keep them discrete.

But you have to decide whether or not you want midi and audio together on your interface, or just more audio inputs and use the Uno henceforth.

wow. awesome.

Thing about plugging midi direct into computer (using the Uno) is that mac requires me to choose what input to use (interface vs. uno).. so that means I would have to keep changing it in my preferences, right?

[mikemc]

wow. awesome.

Thing about plugging midi direct into computer (using the Uno) is that mac requires me to choose what input to use (interface vs. uno).. so that means I would have to keep changing it in my preferences, right?

To be sure, using the Uno is not "plugging midi direct". The Uno is a very simple MIDI->USB interface, but it is an interface. If you were to get a combination audio/midi source, you could still use the Uno if you wanted. You can have more than one MIDI input source.

In terms of Live's preferences, if the Uno is connected and working every time prior to starting Live, if you configured it before, it should be there the next time.

I don't know about Mac preferences, I'm on Windows. But i'm sure it just works, and if it doesn't, I guess you can always hope that Steve Jobs gets cancer.

[bigmonster7]

ok so an update.

Now that I understand the logic between the setup, I am in the process of choosing a new interface and what to route the output too...

As I said earlier, my planned setup is:

1. Guitar (natural sounds, effects via macbook)
2. Midi Keyboard (produce beats, synth)
3. Piano (piano)
4. Vocals (natural sounds, effects via macbook)

Any recommendations?

right now I am considering:

Tascam US800
Tascam US1641 USB 2.0

and maybe, just maybe Motu Ultralite mk3 usb

any other suggestions?

I have a macbook, but no firewire

At the same time, I am trying to decide if I should get a firewire interface and just get the converter cord into usb? or is that just stupid?

Next, how should I run the output for a live show? I think this is the next step I need to help understand..... From the interface, do I run everything into the same output (i.e. amp, speaker, etc..)..... any recommendations?

Thanks

[bigmonster7]

Also,

any recommendations for an amp or PA I should get?