Live vocal processing causing extreme feedback

[Markemark]

^^^
yeah but I don't think that a slight crosstalk will cause extreme feedbacks
almost all venue mixers sport some crosstalk

The crosstalk is in the audio card and the plugin is sitting after the input. On a hardware mixer setup all gain is applied before the input(miked marshal stack, distortion pedals to di-box, line6 amp sim). The signal is not being amplified after the input thus crosstalk from the output on hardware mixers would be a non issue, it is not being amplified.

[3dot...]

hmm.. yeah.. although I believe most amping is done at the soundcard input..
not much should be applied later (in guitar-rig
I guess disabling guitar-rig should fix this if that's the cause..

[Markemark]

Believe me I wish this wasn't the case but I've tested alot of audio cards(of course built in is the worst) and there all going to have this problem the more gain you add after the input. Here's an example to check how your card will perform. Arm a track in ableton set your metro at 0db thats the default anyway. Now just put a Utility plug on that track and add some gain(start at like 20db for shitty onboard sound cards). Now record with just the metro playing. Stop the metro and check your clip, should be silent. Increase the gain db till you hear the metro being recorded. Higher the gain the better your sound card is (noise floor, crosstalk/bleed). There is much more gain then this when you substitute a amp sim for the Utility plug.

[abri]

Believe me I wish this wasn't the case but I've tested alot of audio cards(of course built in is the worst) and there all going to have this problem the more gain you add after the input. Here's an example to check how your card will perform. Arm a track in ableton set your metro at 0db thats the default anyway. Now just put a Utility plug on that track and add some gain(start at like 20db for shitty onboard sound cards). Now record with just the metro playing. Stop the metro and check your clip, should be silent. Increase the gain db till you hear the metro being recorded. Higher the gain the better your sound card is (noise floor, crosstalk/bleed). There is much more gain then this when you substitute a amp sim for the Utility plug.

Hey, i have just tried recording with the metronome on, and in fact there is bleed from the metronome when recording, although it takes massive amount of gain to be barely noticeable with my NI interface...but as you say, with an amp simulator and at a high volume situation, this could be the issue that makes feedback a lot more likely to happen.

[3dot...]

then try disabling it..

[Markemark]

I first discovered this to be a problem with this setup.
M-audio fast track pro input 1 for guitar, output 1 to a guitar amp and cab. Input 2 for bass, output 2 to a bass amp and cab. Then I had some backup tracks going to outputs 3/4 then on to a pa. After everything was turned up guess what? I'm hearing my backing tracks coming thru the bass and guitar amps, POST what ever plugins are on those channels. I now use a separate audio card for the input of any instrument that will have a plugin with a amp sim, distortion, overdrive, etc.. The output of another audio card cannot bleed/crosstalk once in the digital realm. Sucks using two cards for this but when recording and listening to the mix playback there is also absolutely nothing recorded in the background

[3dot...]

+72db (crazy boost) and no crosstalk (rme multifaceII and Motu 24i/o)..
and even if there was a slight one.. it shouldn't cause feedback unless boosted in an irrational way..
so check your interface like Markemark says..

[Markemark]

+72db (crazy boost) and no crosstalk (rme multifaceII and Motu 24i/o)..
and even if there was a slight one.. it shouldn't cause feedback unless boosted in an irrational way..
so check your interface like Markemark says..

Nice, you where up to your third utility plugin!!!! Wish I had a rme. Do you have guitar rig, if so could you try it with say a ultrasonic with overdrive on and a skreamer pedal in front of it? A gratifier with the gain at 10 on vintage and a spring reverb following the cab would be a nice test too.

[VampireAngel909]

Sorry for this, I am not replying because I have a solution, more because I need help on getting my live vocals to get routed to a custom made chain effects rack then into the master. I decided not to make a new topic, since what I'm asking, is kind of related to this one. Do I need a mic interface, I'm trying right now using a USB Mic. Still, can't get that Mic to pass thru the effects rack and then thru Master Out Am I doing bad routing, my guess is that the routing is not working like I want to. Like our friend here, I want to be able to use Ableton Live custom efx racks to process my live vocals plus be able to run my music programming as well. I do for the most part, industrial music, got 2 friends playing electric guitars + synth and me doing some vocals and beats/samples/basslines programming (via Ableton Live) So far, Im processing my vocals with an external DSP. But I think I can do better industrial like vocals using Lives efx rack Just need a little help from you guys.

I thank you all in advanced

[Markemark]

Sorry for this, I am not replying because I have a solution, more because I need help on getting my live vocals to get routed to a custom made chain effects rack then into the master. I decided not to make a new topic, since what I'm asking, is kind of related to this one. Do I need a mic interface, I'm trying right now using a USB Mic. Still, can't get that Mic to pass thru the effects rack and then thru Master Out Am I doing bad routing, my guess is that the routing is not working like I want to. Like our friend here, I want to be able to use Ableton Live custom efx racks to process my live vocals plus be able to run my music programming as well. I do for the most part, industrial music, got 2 friends playing electric guitars + synth and me doing some vocals and beats/samples/basslines programming (via Ableton Live) So far, Im processing my vocals with an external DSP. But I think I can do better industrial like vocals using Lives efx rack Just need a little help from you guys.

I thank you all in advanced

I don't own a usb mic but if I'm not mistaken the computer looks at it like its a sound card(with just inputs). What are your options for input and output in the preferences? If your on mac you may have to aggregate your usb sound card with your onboard sound card if thats what you have. If on pc you can combine sound cards with a driver called asio4all. From the info you've given it sounds like when you select your audio device for the usb mic then you lose your onboard audio outs.
Please post a picture of your live set or at least more info about your audio hardware you would like to use and describe your input output configuration.

[VampireAngel909]

I don't own a usb mic but if I'm not mistaken the computer looks at it like its a sound card(with just inputs). What are your options for input and output in the preferences? If your on mac you may have to aggregate your usb sound card with your onboard sound card if thats what you have. If on pc you can combine sound cards with a driver called asio4all. From the info you've given it sounds like when you select your audio device for the usb mic then you lose your onboard audio outs.
Please post a picture of your live set or at least more info about your audio hardware you would like to use and describe your input output configuration.

Thanks Markemark. Will get some screenshots and describe everything as soon as I get home. Unfortunately I'm working right now and don't have my complete set-up with me. Thanks for such fast response. As soon as I get home, will load one of my drum programming plus the usb mich and will show and explain the full in/out config, so you will get the full picture

[VampireAngel909]

I don't own a usb mic but if I'm not mistaken the computer looks at it like its a sound card(with just inputs). What are your options for input and output in the preferences? If your on mac you may have to aggregate your usb sound card with your onboard sound card if thats what you have. If on pc you can combine sound cards with a driver called asio4all. From the info you've given it sounds like when you select your audio device for the usb mic then you lose your onboard audio outs.
Please post a picture of your live set or at least more info about your audio hardware you would like to use and describe your input output configuration.

Thanks one more time Markemark. Ok will try my best explaining my actual, non working setup. First of all hope you can be able to spot everything about my laptop I/O. Here's the screenshot, please let me know if you need more info.

[Markemark]

I don't own a usb mic but if I'm not mistaken the computer looks at it like its a sound card(with just inputs). What are your options for input and output in the preferences? If your on mac you may have to aggregate your usb sound card with your onboard sound card if thats what you have. If on pc you can combine sound cards with a driver called asio4all. From the info you've given it sounds like when you select your audio device for the usb mic then you lose your onboard audio outs.
Please post a picture of your live set or at least more info about your audio hardware you would like to use and describe your input output configuration.

Thanks one more time Markemark. Ok will try my best explaining my actual, non working setup. First of all hope you can be able to spot everything about my laptop I/O. Here's the screenshot, please let me know if you need more info.

I see your on a mac, what are your input/output options in the preferences? because if you chose your usbmic as your audio interface I don't think you'll have any audio out available to choose from hardware outputs. Please check that.

[Markemark]

Oh, and just to be clear does this usb mic have any outputs on it like a headphone jack?

[VampireAngel909]

Oh, and just to be clear does this usb mic have any outputs on it like a headphone jack?

Nope no extra outputs at all, just that usb cable connector . Thanks in advanced