will live work on linux???

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
sqook
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Post by sqook » Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:37 pm

forge wrote:
bencodec wrote:. but as the price of hardware comes down and the price of windoze stays the same pretty soon all the manufactureers are gonna have to strat offing Linux versions of theres packaged systems to allow their prices to continue to fall competitively .
good point....
Kind of like when dell started offering RH7 on their machines to lower end-user costs? Oh yeahhhh they had to stop doing that because sales went through the floor. =/

The only thing that will encourage commercial hw distributors to package linux with their products is consumer demand. This is why IBM can get away with it at the enterprise level, but you won't ever see HP offer a preinstalled joe-shmoe linux box at best buy (I hope I end up eating my words on this one).

As far as linux's ability to be a competitive OS in the audio industry, it's got quite a ways to go, imo. Not to sound like an apple fanboy, but there's a reason that I use a mac for making music and linux for pretty much everything else. I like being able to drop the app I want from a dmg to my apps folder, launch it, and then whoo!, you're ready to make music not more than 10 seconds later. In linux, you have to play the "well, this library needs THIS library, which seems to want THIS other dependency which I guess I'll go out and build" game.

I've been proven wrong in the past about this, though... I was highly skeptical of audacity, and now it's one of my favorite sound editors out there. It's really just a matter of getting enough good, polished apps out in the community to encourage companies like ableton to make linux ports. It's been done in other fields, this one is just a matter of time....

AdamJay
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Post by AdamJay » Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:43 am

I think enough of us WANT a linux version of Live. Its just that when you want software to work on such an under-supported (audio drivers, etc.) platform such as Linux... well where do you start? There's so many other variables... what about all my VSTs and VSTi's ? i'm not going linux with live unless Reaktor, Waves, and TC will follow suit.

We are a complacent society that won't put effort into a cause if there is a good chance we will lose. A few more threads about Linux on this forum may help, but we have to understand that it is a larger, systemic problem and domination by Microsoft that keeps them on top.

Also, i'd rather Ableton put effort into Mac optimizations rather than having to code Live for Linux, if it just comes down to time and manpower. PDC, and some other sequencing improvements are first in line (for me) far ahead of a Linux version of Live.
If the Linux version performed as well as the OSX version.. i'd still be using XP for Live.

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Post by sqook » Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:07 am

AdamJay wrote:I think enough of us WANT a linux version of Live. Its just that when you want software to work on such an under-supported (audio drivers, etc.) platform such as Linux... well where do you start? There's so many other variables... what about all my VSTs and VSTi's ? i'm not going linux with live unless Reaktor, Waves, and TC will follow suit.
Audacity has VST support, so I can't imagine that linux doesn't already have decent facilities to support something like this, albeit in a somewhat limited manner. It's more of a matter of amount of man hours it'd take to port code vs. potential sales.

Moody
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Post by Moody » Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:27 am

I voted for tis last time and I am voting again. Give me Live for Linux and I will buy it. Bundle it with its own Linux distro that is tuned for music making and I will pay even more. Ableton... did you hear that? I will pay more for free stuff... LOL! :D

noisetonepause
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Post by noisetonepause » Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:57 am

AdamJay wrote:I think enough of us WANT a linux version of Live. Its just that when you want software to work on such an under-supported (audio drivers, etc.) platform such as Linux... well where do you start? There's so many other variables... what about all my VSTs and VSTi's ? i'm not going linux with live unless Reaktor, Waves, and TC will follow suit.
Linux as a desktop OS is still in its infancy - but compared to just two years ago, it's getting there. In the long run I have a lot of faith in Linux, and manufacturers are going to have to start supporting it soon. The only reason drivers and such isn't a problem on XP is cos the manufacturers know they'd best build them themselves if they want to sell any hardware :) My only worry is that h/w manufacturers won't believe in the Open Source movement and just release binaries of their drivers - but the beauty of Linux is that you have millions of geeks writing software for you to use, simply cos they like it.

As for Linux versions of VSTs and VSTis - Linux has its own standard, can't remember the acronym, and it will be supported in the future by the big plugin manufacturers, I'm sure of it, it's just a case of who-goes-first. Once more and more people realise that Ardour and Rosegarden are (becoming) a viable alternative to the endless upgrade cycles of PT, Logic and Cubase, you're going to see everyone rushing in to become the first pro-quality Linux plugin developers. Unless Steinberg or Digidesign decide to support Linux themselves, which would be good for the OS but maybe bad for the movement - again, Open Source and GNU being Good, closed source being Bad :)
Also, i'd rather Ableton put effort into Mac optimizations rather than having to code Live for Linux, if it just comes down to time and manpower. PDC, and some other sequencing improvements are first in line (for me) far ahead of a Linux version of Live. If the Linux version performed as well as the OSX version.. i'd still be using XP for Live.
Well... I don't know how much the performance difference between XP-boxes and Macs is due to the OS - in fact it's my distinct impression that X.3 is a lot less resource hungry than XP. And I know that a finely tuned Linux-system is a lot less resource hungry and a lot more stable than any XP system, so I suspect a Live on Linux would be killer... but nobody knows...

-Paws

rikhyray
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Post by rikhyray » Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:35 am

I think what really killed the Windows alternatives is the XP. Musicians at least most of them like toys but are not really geeks. The shit has to work, till XP Windows was not good enough, any alternative was interesting but there was just one really of use for the pros- Mac. I am not interested to pay their oscene prices, cause it inludes bloody Jessica parker endorsment and all the other advertising. They spend more money on that rubbish then developement. So now when it is OK with XP it works, I buy that shit and forget about it. Some of my friends tend to think I am computer freak since I spent up to 12-14 hours daily with it. Wrong, I do music and use a computer because it is the tool in 2004.
I dont like Billy Gates ( that Scandinavian fellow who created Linux seems really smart & nice person) and his kind but does not matter, I have no time or interests to "fight" big corpotate world, even then there are better means then boycoting Microsoft. As long as it functions the way I need, I pay and do not even want to think about it.
To me these are just a tools, I dont think I am any different from the rest of users here. When it comes to "Mac vs. PC" there are the amateurs who freak out and jump at each other. It can be read on this forum the real musicians have their sentiments for music not for computer companies, so they get whatever works best to realise artistic goals. I guess it is not worth for Ableton to waste time and money to develop alternative to Windows, there was need 3 years ago, but not anymore.

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Post by toneroll » Thu Nov 25, 2004 12:19 pm

so what are you then rikrahy? an amatuer? you are in thread about wether you could one day run live in linux? :lol:

how computer geeky is linux?????

you may be refering to the other thread (the flame war one) and yeah i am not pro.... but someone asks for advice, and im not busy or having a break, i give them mine.. simple

this shit has to stop! we are all being spoilt brats , a few years ago we dint even have much better than the A1 .. now look at the wonderfull synths and drum machines that are pouring out of our vst folders. they all sound good , pros are singing their praises . :roll:

most things are stable, run well , and sound good.... on any platform

WHEN WE USE THEM .. (right i am forumed out.... i am going becoming a pro, bye bye)
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jaffacake
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Post by jaffacake » Sun Nov 28, 2004 5:29 am

if u guys keep asking for a linux version like you asked for VSTi implementation, u might just get it one day ;)

rikhyray
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Post by rikhyray » Sun Nov 28, 2004 3:32 pm

No disrespect for amateurs, music is a great hobby for sure and also people can flame be on the warpath with pc or mac if they like to. I have no problem with that, nobody forces anyone to read such threads, if you have fun , do it. I meant how pragmatic pros are or have to be. There is no time, you use whatever get the job done, no much to it.
Anyway since I just got new laptop, right now doing "online" partition, perhaps it would be better idea to have it "linuxed" I would appreciate any suggestions, links I never used linux so need exact step by step guide. I know that it is a better idea for internet safety.
toneroll wrote:so what are you then rikrahy? an amatuer? you are in thread about wether you could one day run live in linux? :lol:

how computer geeky is linux?????

you may be refering to the other thread (the flame war one) and yeah i am not pro.... but someone asks for advice, and im not busy or having a break, i give them mine.. simple

this shit has to stop! we are all being spoilt brats , a few years ago we dint even have much better than the A1 .. now look at the wonderfull synths and drum machines that are pouring out of our vst folders. they all sound good , pros are singing their praises . :roll:

most things are stable, run well , and sound good.... on any platform

WHEN WE USE THEM .. (right i am forumed out.... i am going becoming a pro, bye bye)

Martyn
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Post by Martyn » Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:14 pm

Inspired by this thread, I spent the better part of the evening doing a bit of web trawling on the subject of audio on Linux. It's not the first time, I've been really interested in getting something running on Linux since having a go with Knoppix (Linux that runs from your cd drive) a year or so ago.

Quite a bit has changed recently it seems, and while your not going to get Ableton Live to run on it yet, there's a lot of pretty interesting stuff being developed. Driver support seems to be a lot better too.

Anyway, i thought I'd post a few links for anyone interested. Ardour is coming along very nicely, I'd like to give this one a try.

http://www.linuxmusician.com/index.php? ... 1&Itemid=3

http://stage4.co.uk/full_story.php?newsID=184 (this distribution looks VERY interesting)

http://ardour.org/

http://www.djcj.org/LAU/guide/index.php

http://www.nongnu.org/protux/screens.html

http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/

http://www.agnula.org/

http://www.manifoldlabs.com/ (Lunux based rackmounted VST plugin host)

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Post by basetwo » Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:23 am

Yeah, there are actually a few studios using Ardour for professional recording. If someone hadn't already mentioned Planet CCRMA, I would have.

There is support for Linux by M-Audio and RME and many other professional-level audio hardware manufacturers are at least not hindering driver development, some are actually encouraging it, and some like the two mentioned actually do the work themselves!

See if your hardware is supported: http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/

I bought an M-Audio card just because it had Linux support, and I use it for Linux and Windows.

Someone should try running Live using Wine, -- I have no knowledge if the audio would be there or not.
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Post by Architect » Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:03 am

To be honest with you the latest version of Linux Red Hat and Suse Linux are very user friendly and easy to install and setup. You don't have to be very technical to use the latest versions of Linux and the driver support is getting very good. You do have to look under the hood a little bit to get the power out of the OS but in the end it's worth it because you'll realize you have less mysterious problems like you do with Windows software, less downtime and without having to keep upgrading hardware so often you can have a powerful setup with very inexpensive hardware (the way it should be).

I'm not dissing Microsoft because they rule the software market currently, but it would be nice if there were more alternatives because if there were Microsoft would be forced to get their act together and really making better software, fully testing it, before releasing it to the public (making us guinea pigs).

The way the computer market is right now it's all about money and for that reason it may take some time before Linux is allowed to be a major contender and alternative to Windows because when that happens I'm almost certain millions of people will switch over. Linux is forcing it's way to the top through the grassroots support of technical people, hackers, and smart minded people all over the world who look under the hood a little bit right now but it's coming...
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Want to try that Linux

Post by rikhyray » Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:43 am

Architect wrote:To be honest with you the latest version of Linux Red Hat and Suse Linux are very user friendly and easy to install and setup. You don't have to be very technical to use the latest versions of Linux and the driver support is getting very good. You do have to look under the hood a little bit to get the power out of the OS but in the end it's worth it because you'll realize you have less mysterious problems like you do with Windows software, less downtime and without having to keep upgrading hardware so often you can have a powerful setup with very inexpensive hardware (the way it should be).

...
OK,OK,OK you persueded me, I will give it a try ( I hope it want be so painful like listening to Sasha). Now seriously, I made a internet partition on my HD , XP pro , no tweks, firewall , antivirus. Damn, untweaked Windows suck big time. So bloody slow, and the idiotic MS messages to update anti virus software that I just downloaded, and everything is so slow. Mac fanatics are right untweaked XP is shit.
So I am ready for Linux!
I know that for internet, general purpose it should be OKand all the pc pros I know use only Linux pc for the internetPlease Linux fans tell what should I install, I found in the net there are some simple versions like Knopix or whatever their names , can be downloaded but even CDrom cost like 5-8$.
I want something for the net use, have some Outlook and Word kind of thing, ( I dont even want to use any printer on my musiconly partition).
So what should I get ?

sqook
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Re: Want to try that Linux

Post by sqook » Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:52 pm

rikhyray wrote: OK,OK,OK you persueded me, I will give it a try ( I hope it want be so painful like listening to Sasha). Now seriously, I made a internet partition on my HD , XP pro , no tweks, firewall , antivirus. Damn, untweaked Windows suck big time. So bloody slow, and the idiotic MS messages to update anti virus software that I just downloaded, and everything is so slow. Mac fanatics are right untweaked XP is shit.
So I am ready for Linux!
I know that for internet, general purpose it should be OKand all the pc pros I know use only Linux pc for the internetPlease Linux fans tell what should I install, I found in the net there are some simple versions like Knopix or whatever their names , can be downloaded but even CDrom cost like 5-8$.
I want something for the net use, have some Outlook and Word kind of thing, ( I dont even want to use any printer on my musiconly partition).
So what should I get ?
Make sure all of your data is backed up first. Dual booting machines can be tricky sometimes because windows isn't very fond of sharing it's hard drive with other OS's. You might want to read this before you start. As for finding a good beginner distro, I'd recommend suse, esp. because you're german, and suse happens to have very good international support. You can find iso's of their (and other) distros here.

As far as support goes, irc can be a mixed bag... you'll either find what you need, or just get flamed by a bunch of holier-than-thou "experts". freenode is generally the best tech support network, imo.

Good luck! =)

håkan bråkan
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Post by håkan bråkan » Sun Apr 16, 2006 9:48 am

here is a good initiative of some ubuntu users:
http://ubuntustudio.com/wiki/index.php/ ... _Musicians!

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