Ableton Forum

Keep in mind that a signal with jitter is not always 'bad' sounding. If the receiving device's clock can still lock to it and the pulses are not drastically out of time where you're dropping samples, then it's not a big deal at all.

Super accurate clocks all sound like a good idea except for one thing - and that is how other gear uses those clocks.

AFAIK they dont use them directly, instead they tend t sync thweir own clock to the reference - so if the clock in your audio interface is jittery - it is still going to be jittery when synced to a reference clock. The only real diiference is that is keeps getting pulled back into sync very few cycles - which isnt really going to help the problem you are trying to help with - ie the ADC/DACs in your audio interface - that clock is gointg to be as jittery as ever on a sample by sample basis.

If you are really concerned about this - sorry only real fix is an audio interface with a way way more stable clock - ie more money

Also worth thinking about, even some interfaces with very stable clocks might actually be degraded when running slave mode from another reference - no matter how good that reference is - it just depends upon how good their sync method is - some are very smooth, others are shit by comparison.

This explains about jitter

http://www.digido.com/jitter.html

Thanks Leeds, figured he had something on his site about it but was too busy to look.

i know this is a different realm of audio. but in a live setting i've used a Yamaha PM5d one night on, if i remember correctly, a L-acoustics VDOSC system at a festival mainstage to a total audience of about 80,000 people and then a week later did another festival with basically the same rig except the 5d was running an external clock (apogee big ben) and using the same show with the same band on what was to the best of my memory the same system was night and day better with the external clock. I've had a couple other engineers i know have similar experiences. Granted there are plenty of variables with outdoor festivals but it was very very noticeable. That said, in a studio/controlled environment, i feel when working with multiple pieces of digital gear a high quality clock will help out. HOwever this is my only experience with using one.

Again, like DAW differences, this is a contentious issue, and it is possible that whatever was being the master clock before could have (some would argue MUST have) been faulty to make such a difference. Big Ben isn't even regarded as being the top notch clocking system any more, Grimm Audio CC1, Drawmer, Antelope Isochronous are all regarded as being even more accurate than Apogee's Big Ben.

As someone who has used a Big Ben system, I think it did improve the quality of clocking in a chain of devices several years ago, but component quality has gotten better and cheaper and most budget end interfaces have reasonable clocking these days, but more importantly, you CANNOT improve a poor clock by adding a high end master clock into the chain unless it meets stringent criteria.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/masterin ... clock.html (read some of this thread to understand why).

Whatever is synced in a chain is only as good as the lowest common denominator. You have to replace whichever device is giving poor clocking and jitter by something better. Even slaved to a good master clock most digital interfaces etc are very unlikely to improve.

leedsquietman wrote:Again, like DAW differences, this is a contentious issue, and it is possible that whatever was being the master clock before could have (some would argue MUST have) been faulty to make such a difference. Big Ben isn't even regarded as being the top notch clocking system any more, Grimm Audio CC1, Drawmer, Antelope Isochronous are all regarded as being even more accurate than Apogee's Big Ben.

As someone who has used a Big Ben system, I think it did improve the quality of clocking in a chain of devices several years ago, but component quality has gotten better and cheaper and most budget end interfaces have reasonable clocking these days, but more importantly, you CANNOT improve a poor clock by adding a high end master clock into the chain unless it meets stringent criteria.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/masterin ... clock.html (read some of this thread to understand why).

Whatever is synced in a chain is only as good as the lowest common denominator. You have to replace whichever device is giving poor clocking and jitter by something better. Even slaved to a good master clock most digital interfaces etc are very unlikely to improve.

dont want to point to crazy german engineers again..but its hard to beat the sync pope.. the rosendahl units are relativly mild priced because they dont need to afford all the advertizing campains...
technically the are at the bleeding edge of technology..

however.. its really an interesting question how an interface reacts to an external clock.. and how good its internal clock is..


again we have a "no one cant hear this and that" situation... and an official border of industry accepted 5 ns max jitter..

Thats a standard pro digital systems get installed since 2 decades..so one can expect any pro equipment on the market to hold to that standard by now...

question.. is this standard a practica technical standard, a high fidelity standard or just "beyond anyone can hear"... ???

like allways it´s a practical technical standard thats transported to the masses as a "beyond anyone can hear" situation to avoid high fidelity mass hysteria that would put the technical stuff and manufactors under too high pressure..


IN short... On a digital yamaha desk that is produced to the 5ns industry standard ther should be most certainly a high fidelity benefit from a more stable clock... ..
ok..thats an opinion... but yamaha is usually pretty pragmatic in regards of high fidelity... they dont do it any better than they need too....

for a higend comverter ..that allready claims to be high fidelity there shouldnt be a need for a other external stable clock.. because it has the extra stable allready inside.. and aslong you dont need to sync multiple devices ther should be no need for a master clock..

BUT... is everythimg the sell as high fidelity converters really top notch? i cant answer that...

I only trust my own eras regarding audio myths... and sofare i havent tested a master clock in my rme clocked room..

however.. i ve 3 units dasychained now and are getting a yamaha dmc 1000 digital desk soon.. might be time to test one...

only problem... i fear that i ve to buy one than :-/