Looking for Flexible Kick Synthesis Solution

[Dr. Fluffenstein]

Thanks for the waveforms, I really appreciate it . The .adv multisample thing didn't work out for some reason, but the individual sine samples loaded with no prob.

Sorry for being a bit clueless, but what exactly are .ams files?

Do you own suite or a boxed version? I think I'm missing quite a few waveforms, all I have is the "spectral" folder. I figured I might not have them because I have the download version of Live.

[alex.the.forge]

Thanks for the waveforms, I really appreciate it . The .adv multisample thing didn't work out for some reason, but the individual sine samples loaded with no prob.

Sorry for being a bit clueless, but what exactly are .ams files?

Do you own suite or a boxed version? I think I'm missing quite a few waveforms, all I have is the "spectral" folder. I figured I might not have them because I have the download version of Live.

I have the full suite

AMS files are Ableton Meta files - they are just a type of simple waveform with small file size that can be used in Ableton instruments

do you have the latest version of Live 8.1.5? I would have thought the ADV file would work even in Live without the suite, but as I have Live 8 I would expect what I sent to only work in Live 8. I think something changed with file types in Live 8.1.3 as well, so maybe something happened then. Maybe try updating if you haven't already?

[Dr. Fluffenstein]

I'm currently using 8.1.3, I haven't updated yet since it's been relatively stable for me. I'll install 8.1.5 and try the .adv again as soon as I get the chance.

Thanks again for uploading the waveforms.

[crofter]

This may do,
http://www.amvst.com/node/2
or the free one,
http://www.amvst.com/node/17

[Dr. Fluffenstein]

I have the full suite

AMS files are Ableton Meta files - they are just a type of simple waveform with small file size that can be used in Ableton instruments

do you have the latest version of Live 8.1.5? I would have thought the ADV file would work even in Live without the suite, but as I have Live 8 I would expect what I sent to only work in Live 8. I think something changed with file types in Live 8.1.3 as well, so maybe something happened then. Maybe try updating if you haven't already?

The .adv file loads in 8.1.3 and 8.1.5, but it says that media files are missing. I found them using Live's browser, and it found 100 "candidate files" for the 100 missing files. But then I clicked on the multisample simpler and the files were still missing. I guess I'm doing something wrong?

This may do,
http://www.amvst.com/node/2
or the free one,
http://www.amvst.com/node/17

http://www.defeq.com/blog/2010/07/14/kick-maker-racks/

might be worth a look

Thanks for the links

[alex.the.forge]

I have the full suite

AMS files are Ableton Meta files - they are just a type of simple waveform with small file size that can be used in Ableton instruments

do you have the latest version of Live 8.1.5? I would have thought the ADV file would work even in Live without the suite, but as I have Live 8 I would expect what I sent to only work in Live 8. I think something changed with file types in Live 8.1.3 as well, so maybe something happened then. Maybe try updating if you haven't already?

The .adv file loads in 8.1.3 and 8.1.5, but it says that media files are missing. I found them using Live's browser, and it found 100 "candidate files" for the 100 missing files. But then I clicked on the multisample simpler and the files were still missing. I guess I'm doing something wrong?

they should go in the Library in the Samples\waveforms\components\harmonic folder - both the folder and ADV file should go in there, then try dragging the adv file in to a set from there

[Dr. Fluffenstein]

they should go in the Library in the Samples\waveforms\components\harmonic folder - both the folder and ADV file should go in there, then try dragging the adv file in to a set from there

Great, it works . Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it.


On to a question for everyone, I heard somewhere that cropping a waveform at the start (at a non-zero crossing) is important for giving kicks a sharp click, is it really that important to do this?

Also, since simpler doesn't let you change the sample start in multisample mode, I decided I might use a single sample instead. That means I would have to transpose it, so I was wondering if it's better to transpose up or transpose down, which one degrades the sample less? I'm working in the c0, c1 range so I don't need to pitch samples any higher than C2.

[3phase]

they should go in the Library in the Samples\waveforms\components\harmonic folder - both the folder and ADV file should go in there, then try dragging the adv file in to a set from there

Great, it works . Thanks for the help.

On to a question for everyone, I heard somewhere that cropping a waveform at the start (at a non-zero crossing) is important for giving kicks a sharp click, is it really that important to do this?

Also, since simpler doesn't let you change start in multisample mode, I decided I might use a single sample instead. That means I would have to transpose it, so I was wondering if it's better to transpose up or transpose down, which one degrades the sample less?

no.. of cause it clicks when you cut midde in the waveform but in most cases yu want the natural transient and not an artificial click...

so better cut your samples correctly ..you allways can move the startpoint a bit forward into the ""clicking" zone or do another crop with a shortend version..

i dont work with simpler.. i dont know if the startpint setting is fine enough adjustable.. in the unlikely case it is... you actually should leave a protion of silence before the kick. so you can delay it with an earlier startpoint if desired.. dependent on sound and style this can be sometmes usefull and more comfortale than fine shifting notes in the editor..



to the up down thing.. booth degrade the sample.. ther is a rang up and a range down that sounds ok.. depends on the sound which direction gives the wider span.. some sounds can be well played over the entire keyboardrange.. others sound crap after a few keys..

i personally got the idea that for many sounds down transposing works better,..

[Dr. Fluffenstein]

Thanks 3phase, I'll keep those points in mind... The kick patch is just about done now

[Dr. Fluffenstein]

Ok, here is my first attempt at a kick synth using only simplers and waveforms (Live 8.1.3 and higher)

http://hotfile.com/dl/63288931/dd43f54/ ... t.rar.html

It's more of a test really, I used only sine waves so the sound palette is limited but you can still coax some decent kicks out of it. The sound is unprocessed, but you can probably get a lot more sonic variety by putting some audio fx in the chains and a compressor after the rack. It's pretty straightforward to use, you don't have to touch anything other than the macros/chain mixer, and I added info text to explain things a bit.

(Credit to 3OT and opuswerk at defeq.com for the 'waveforms' set which is where I got the noise sample)

Lemme know what you guys think


I bounced a few kicks as examples, and I also included a demo kick from the second kick synth I'm making (which is in progress), it's a lot beefier since I used different waveforms.

Basically I'm trying to create a flexible synth that you can use to re-create almost any kick (or at least get close ). Any improvement suggestions along those lines?

[commuter]

http://www.synapse-audio.com/eks9.php

Eks9 , the best kick synth i know, i'm in love with it , ultra punchy kick drums: awesome

[alex.the.forge]

...
It's more of a test really, I used only sine waves so the sound palette is limited...?

I am waiting for the free download, but the 909 and 808 were both created from "only" sine waves, and still to this day you will hear both of them in probably every club in the world to this day, so don't underestimate that limited palette!

[alex.the.forge]

just downloaded it and it's good but you can do a surprisingly decent kick with just the one simpler - very like a 909 kick. Just try setting the pitch envelope ENV to something like +32 and play around with the ADSRs on the Pitch and Volume envelopes - like turn sustain all the way down, try a decay of around 1sec for both, and a release of around 1sec for the Pitch env and about 400ms for the vol env) and a C1 (default note for a kick) should sound pretty close to a 909

shove a compressor after it, maybe even a saturator or overdrive and you might be surprised how far it could get you.

[davepermen]

I'm building mine with operator, a Sine, and a pitch envelope. the rest then will be saturation, compression, eqing. so you should be able to get equal results with simpler, too.

i've once found a simple kick generator vst plugin which showed me the basics for the operator settings, but i don't know it's name anymore i searched for it.

[mdk]

I did an 808 emulation with operator and ableton native plugs, might be interesting for you

http://relivethefuture.com/music/patches/oper808v8.zip

I do have a 909 style kick built with operator somewhere, i'll upload it when i find it.