Ableton Forum

H20nly wrote:i'm saying i don't really see the irony. you are making a choice to use Logic instead of Live. its not ironic when i eat corn flakes instead of chex. if anything, what you're saying is the equivalent of... i waited in line for hours to get to the concert and right when i got to the ticket booth i changed my mind and decided to go to the movies instead. enjoy the show, by all means, but its not some bizarre twist of fate, its a conscious decision to do something different.

meantime, i'm gonna enjoy Live 8.2.1
all this waiting was... well it was waiting, but now Live just works (at last). i'll be damned if i'm gonna quit at this point.

OK, yeah, it certainly is a conscious and deliberated decision.

The irony to me is that I wouldn't have (re)tried the competition if it wasn't for that I had some serious issues with L8, but that it's not the issues themselves that makes me switch. (In fact, I've found Logic to be pretty unstable.) That, and that I came to my final decision just about when L8 finally became stable, with my setup.

(I still think I'm a long lost poet though!)

ShelLuser wrote:

Finally.. It has been said, it has been addressed AND we have finally some confirmation that Live is indeed an addictive substance.

Yeah, but probably only available in California and for medicinal purposes

starving student wrote:hey slirak good luck with logic and what you do, I think logic has allot of workflow enhancements that make it fun, especially if you're the type that makes a zillion alternate takes in your process
and welcome back in advance

Thanks! And well, I wouldn't say I do a zillion alternate takes, but I do find Logic's handling of takes to be a great tool for creating massive overdubs of backing vocals. And it's good to have comping. (I wouldn't be very surprised if Live 9 adds something similar, plus some sort of pitch correction. Melodyne style? That would be way cool!)

ShelLuser wrote:couldn't you have joined the AA (Ableton Anonymous) or ALA (Ableton Live Anonymous) instead ?

I did:

1. We admitted we were powerless over Ableton Live - that our lives had become unmanageable. (Check.)

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. (Steve Jobs/Apple Logic)

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him. (Steve Jobs)

etc.

Hey Slirak,

I am not doggin' on you, you didn't actually say Live was or needed to be a jack of all trades. I'm just sayin' that in my personal opinion, Live would be better sticking off at being a creative, live orientated tool, rather than trying to become Logic with a Session View.

Apologies for any misunderstanding.

People should use whatever is most productive for them. Fanboyism is not healthy.

slirak wrote:

Machinesworking wrote:...the only thing that will slow me down is getting caught up in trying to deal with a weakness in the DAW I'm using, and for that reason alone, I'm glad I use more than one.

I think this is a fundamental difference between what we could call different styles of creativity. Me, I get more creative the fewer tools I have. And the simpler they are. If I have options, I can't help trying them all. But some people get more creative the more options they have. Then there's the lucky few that are so goal oriented that it doesn't really matter, they'll get to their end results no matter what tools they have. How I envy those lucky bastards!

I fall more into the third choice, but I definitely have never been one to hate having choices.
I've wanted a huge synth studio since I was around 13. In 1979 that meant dreaming of one day owning a single monophonic synth for the same price the big polyphonic synths are now, around $2,500. When you go years with shit for recording gear, having it doesn't seem like a curse.

It's more a matter of knowing to a degree what I want out of the gear before I approach it than anything else. So Live is great for sketching out quick songs, use it for that, Logic and DP are great for surgical edits and complicated songs, working with hardware synths etc. use them for that.

If too much fun and not enough finishing is the reason for changing it sounds like you need to be working on developing and refining your process and discipline more than learning a new daw or anything else.

my 2 yen from a hospital bed

leedsquietman wrote:Hey Slirak,

I am not doggin' on you, you didn't actually say Live was or needed to be a jack of all trades. I'm just sayin' that in my personal opinion, Live would be better sticking off at being a creative, live orientated tool, rather than trying to become Logic with a Session View.

Apologies for any misunderstanding.

People should use whatever is most productive for them. Fanboyism is not healthy.

It's OK leeds, I know you as a nice and smart guy. And I know some people criticize Live for not being a standard DAW and I agree that's stupid - it's a bit like saying you don't like football 'cause it's poor hockey.

My problem is more about Live being so incredibly flexible already, that I can't help playing with its infinite possibilities instead of finishing anything.

I have a twenty something year old copy of Keyboard Magazine with an interview with Brian Eno, where he talks about how he needs limitations in order to be creative. At that time, he only used two synths, a Mini Moog and a buggy DX7. He refused to get any more gear and he wouldn't even have his DX7's bugs fixed. He felt that having to solve any production demand with that setup made him much more creative than having a huge array of gear would. I'm much like Brian Eno. Without the talent and success. (But with more hair!)

muthafunka wrote:If too much fun and not enough finishing is the reason for changing it sounds like you need to be working on developing and refining your process and discipline more than learning a new daw or anything else.

my 2 yen from a hospital bed

I don't agree, not in my case.

I've been composing, arranging and recording for some 30 years. I've been reasonably productive with a lot of setups, before Live. So it's not very likely that I'll be able to radically change how my creativity works and I really don't see why I should, since I'm able to produce, just not that much with Live. Learning Logic wasn't an issue either, not learning it enough to start completing tracks anyway. But not knowing all that, I'd probably have replied just the way you did!

Why are you in a hospital bed? Nothing serious I hope!

well slirak, to keep with my previous analogy, its a bummer that you're not coming to the concert with us.

what kind of music do you produce?

@ muthafunka - get well dude.

I dont believe you. If you were really gonna quit you'd just quit without all the hubbub.

slirak wrote:With Logic Express being so cheap, I could well have kept Live too, but I know myself - I'd be turning to Live all the time, having loads of fun tweaking the crap out of just about any little sound snippet, but not finishing even a single goddamn song!

I know what you mean. I don't use Live anymore for producing/composing and like you, have switched to Logic for that. I mostly use Live for the purpose of live performing and I hope Ableton sticks to this focus instead of trying to compete as an all-around DAW.

I was slow to warm up to Logic at first because it initially came across to me as being needlessly complex especially compared to something like Live and assumed that it was yet another bloated DAW. But the more I learned about Logic, I realized that its approach made me more productive as far as actually finishing tracks because it almost forced me to commit to decisions instead of endlessly experimenting like I would with Live's session view. And I've also found that Logic is flexible enough to handle the same type of non-linear approach to composing and arranging, just in a different way. So, I'm not missing on that front, especially with Maschine and drag/drop handling all non-linear pattern duties. And of course, there are many powerful things that Logic can do easily that Live just cannot do that makes you spoiled once you realize it. Logic 9 especially with features like flex time is what finally pushed me to make the switch.

I don't feel like I have to "leave" Live though. I still find it very useful for certain stuff although I don't use it as much anymore. I have way too much time and energy invested in it to just stop using it. But Ableton better stick to the "Live" aspect of Live because MainStage is catching up in that department as well.

Fair call, do what you got to do, life's short and fragile and not to be taken too serious....

To be honest I have absolutely no idea/recollection what happened but it seems I rode my bicycle forehead first at high speed into the underside of a very low bridge before falling sideways unconscious. Serious enough head injuries and a broken collar bone for my trouble, but recovering at record speed apparently and home at last on monday with a few weeks of chilling ahead....sorry for the long story and thank you for the thoughts

Props on your Suite or Live licence (if you own it) and sell it for a good price.
(I know I’m a vulture).