Ableton Forum

33tetragammon wrote:...like i mentioned before,try out Absynth 5.

I have Absynth and yes, it's all that and a bag of chips. I know Zebra and Alchemy are not simple but considering the original request don't you think Absynth might be the deep end of the pool?

UncleAge wrote:

33tetragammon wrote:...like i mentioned before,try out Absynth 5.

I have Absynth and yes, it's all that and a bag of chips. I know Zebra and Alchemy are not simple but considering the original request don't you think Absynth might be the deep end of the pool?

Not at all. Absynth's drop dead simple if you remember two things:

1) The numeric values are maximums. Any modulation will go to that point and not beyond
2) It's all about the envelopes.

Your Absynth forum moderator,
ew

ewistrand wrote: 2) It's all about the envelopes.

Unfortunately. I love Absynth but I wish it wasn't so dependant on those. Multistage envelopes are such a pain compared to automation and clip envelopes like in Live, where you can have different settings for each clip. With multistage envelopes you're basically stuck with that except for assigning macros to the amount.

I wish they would make a version of absynth that exposes the parameters and just had simple ADSRs and lfo's, and let us do the complex mod shapes through the host.

As for the oringinal question, sounds like sampler would do the trick, except that there aren't multi-stage envelopes. But is that necessary for percussion? I'm not sure how you would apply envelopes in series either, or what use that would be. You'd want one envelope to start after another finsihed it's release phase? I've never heard of such a thing.

Kontakt might be worth checking out as well.

glitchrock-buddha wrote:

ewistrand wrote: 2) It's all about the envelopes.

Unfortunately. I love Absynth but I wish it wasn't so dependant on those. Multistage envelopes are such a pain compared to automation and clip envelopes like in Live, where you can have different settings for each clip. With multistage envelopes you're basically stuck with that except for assigning macros to the amount.

I wish they would make a version of absynth that exposes the parameters and just had simple ADSRs and lfo's, and let us do the complex mod shapes through the host.

As for the oringinal question, sounds like sampler would do the trick, except that there aren't multi-stage envelopes. But is that necessary for percussion? I'm not sure how you would apply envelopes in series either, or what use that would be. You'd want one envelope to start after another finsihed it's release phase? I've never heard of such a thing.

Kontakt might be worth checking out as well.

Well not quite. Try taking a sine wave and using only one pitch envelope on it, render it, pretty crappy kick right? Now take your rendered kick and apply another but different pitch envelope to it. After doing this a couple of times and with a bit of EQ'ing you get a very decent sounding result that's better than just using 1 envelope. Usually I just layer different waveforms and add processing to the attack, but I'd like to give multiple envelopes a try.

WALDORF edition gives you PPG wave 2 + Rack attack (drumsynth) + D-pole filter
and all of that for just 50$

Dr. Fluffenstein wrote:

glitchrock-buddha wrote:

ewistrand wrote: 2) It's all about the envelopes.

Unfortunately. I love Absynth but I wish it wasn't so dependant on those. Multistage envelopes are such a pain compared to automation and clip envelopes like in Live, where you can have different settings for each clip. With multistage envelopes you're basically stuck with that except for assigning macros to the amount.

I wish they would make a version of absynth that exposes the parameters and just had simple ADSRs and lfo's, and let us do the complex mod shapes through the host.

As for the oringinal question, sounds like sampler would do the trick, except that there aren't multi-stage envelopes. But is that necessary for percussion? I'm not sure how you would apply envelopes in series either, or what use that would be. You'd want one envelope to start after another finsihed it's release phase? I've never heard of such a thing.

Kontakt might be worth checking out as well.

Well not quite. Try taking a sine wave and using only one pitch envelope on it, render it, pretty crappy kick right? Now take your rendered kick and apply another but different pitch envelope to it. After doing this a couple of times and with a bit of EQ'ing you get a very decent sounding result that's better than just using 1 envelope. Usually I just layer different waveforms and add processing to the attack, but I'd like to give multiple envelopes a try.

I see, I think rendering and repitching will yield much different results than trying to do multiple pitch envelopes at once. I think envelopes at the same time would just add or subtract from each other so you'd still end up with a single envelope as a result. I'm guessing the rendering and re-rendering with different attacks is what's giving interesting results. Just a guess, I'm not totally sure if I'm understanding you but I think so.

glitchrock-buddha wrote: I see, I think rendering and repitching will yield much different results than trying to do multiple pitch envelopes at once. I think envelopes at the same time would just add or subtract from each other so you'd still end up with a single envelope as a result. I'm guessing the rendering and re-rendering with different attacks is what's giving interesting results. Just a guess, I'm not totally sure if I'm understanding you but I think so.

Ya, that's what I meant. You're correct about the envelopes adding or subtracting from each other. I'm no expert on digital synthesis, but I guess it would work by pitch shifting the audio at sample-rate, then each pitched sample goes through the second pitch envelope, and so on. So you're right that the net result is the same as having one pitch envelope. I assumed that if you only had one envelope to do it with then the breakpoints would have to be set to some unusual shapes. Of course I haven't tried any of the above so I'm just guessing, I was just wondering if the Adobe audition way of making kicks can done with a vst.

DaffyDub wrote:WALDORF edition gives you PPG wave 2 + Rack attack (drumsynth) + D-pole filter
and all of that for just 50$

That's quite a steal, is it a temporary deal?

Dr. Fluffenstein wrote:

DaffyDub wrote:WALDORF edition gives you PPG wave 2 + Rack attack (drumsynth) + D-pole filter
and all of that for just 50$

That's quite a steal, is it a temporary deal?

I think this is simply an error, a quick hunt around the 'net shows prices of US 99 for waldorf edition, not 50. I woulda grabbed it for that price...

-M

No, it's 59 euro.

http://www.waldorfmusic-shop.de/epages/ ... D=17834245

This is about 82 Dollars US at the current exchange rate.


The Waldorf PPG2.0 is several years old and while it's OK it's not earth shattering compared to newer synths or even Largo, which is why I'm looking forward to hearing how 3.0 will stack up to it.

Ups - the dollar is low - my bad, but
http://www.thomann.de/dk/waldorf_waldorf_edition.htm

Thoman sells it for 51€ which is equal to 70$

And you're right - it's several years old - but so is a minimoog and the still sell for good prices

IMO it's still a fantastic package

DD

Dr. Fluffenstein wrote:I'm looking for a wavetable softsynth that I can use for synthesizing percussion and drums out of single cycle waveforms. The main feature I'm looking for is the ability to have complex envelope shapes like on the waldorf attack, the kind that have a graphic representation instead of just knobs/sliders. Being able to stack multiple pitch envelopes would be a plus. I've been using simpler for this, but it falls short in the envelope shape department.Can anyone please point me in the right direction?

Thanks.

Checkout SynthMaster 2.5 Demo:

http://www.synthmaster.com/downloads.aspx

I believe it satistifes most of your requirements:

1. Has wavetable/VA/vector/additive/wavescanning synthesis + PM/FM/RM/PWM synthesis (at audio rate)

2. Supports loading single cycle waveforms

3. Massive modulation options: ADSR envelopes, Multisegment envelopes (upto 16 points), 2D (xy) envelopes, LFOs (basic/step/glide), MIDI controllers, audio input envelope are all modulation sources that modulate ANY continous parameter in SynthMaster.

4. Has both digital and analog filters.

Bulent