Don't Buy A Seagate Momentus XT Hybrid Drive!!!

[sporkles]

Somewhat on the topic: I bought one of Seagate's external disks (Expansion 2 TB): the first one was busted, so I got a new
one, which was also busted, at which point I requested a WD instead, which I got, and I've had zero problems with it. This is
a general problem with Seagate drives (Expansion series), and the very fact that they are aware of the problem and haven't
pulled the drives back is enough reason for me to steer clear of Seagate in the future.

[piZMo]

i have a 500gb seagate momentus xt hybrid drive. sd23. 2 months in. no problems so far.

[Piplodocus]

My 500GB 7200rpm Momentus died after 2 months in my laptop, when the boot sector randomly got corrupted in the middle of working on a tune. I'd have written it off as a single bad drive, but I have heard a ton of horror stories about people with their Seagates. Not going with them again if I can help it

I feel I must add that I've been using my 320 GB 7200rpm Momentus for 2 years with no problems at all. It's also very quiet. I have a firm feeing it may work fine for years to come.

Andrejs

Is that the Momentus XT HYBRID platter/SSD drive. I've not had any issues with previous non-hybrid drives from them.

[Piplodocus]

maybe there's differences between the 500 gb and 320GB version ?? dunno
mine came with the firmware SD23 out of the box..

Mine came out the box with SD23 too. I was just noting that people seem to have had even more problems with earlier firmware...

[Piplodocus]

Hello!

There's now an SD24 firmware update for the XT. Anyone who had problems tried it, or anyone running a new Momentus XT in a mac with no audio stutters (excluding people who never had a problem before)??? I still have the XT drive but swapped it out for a WD scorpio black, so it's a lot of effort to put it back in and copy all my stuff back over if it's still not much good as a DAW HDD after the firmware update...

[Mike Goodwin]

It seems that this drive might be causing me problems as well. I just upgraded my drive in my Toshiba A200 laptop. I have been using this laptop with Live as well as Traktor for a couple of years with little to no issues. I did put a new install of windows 764 from scratch with no added bogus or anti-virus software. It is using the SD24 update. I am going to try running with the audio files off an external drive and see if that helps.

[Piplodocus]

I just put it back in on sunday night and upgraded firmware to SD24 to see if it's a fix. It now seems better than it was, haven't had much chance to try it in anger, but had a big burst of glitches last night at one point, and sure I had a glitch the day before. I noticed watching a film just now that I had a few freezes in video playback during that (downloaded, not streamed).

Any more details? Do you have any "power save" features turned on? Running other stuff etc? Single HDD in the Toshiba, or dual drives?

For info mine is:
a Macbook Pro (so is obviously running OSX), with an intel i7 2.66GHz. This thing's SATA300 with an intel chipset. It has all power saving turned off i.e. "Put hard disks to sleep when possible" etc. when on AC power (when I'm making music) and any "Auto graphics switching" turned off. I've got 2 drives: The Momentus XT (or until I tried it again this weekend, a WD Scorpio Black) 500GB as the OSX/Ableton drive, with the original Hitachi 7200rpm 500GB in the DVD drive bay (using an MCE Optibay) with all my samples/songs/projects etc on it.

I tried it with the Live Library on both drives previously (SD23), and have tried it with the Live Library on the Main OSX/Ableton since firmware SD24. Was very hopeful after the FW update, but still no joy.

Still no problems piZMo? No audio stutters or stalls ever? What's your system?

[Wunjo]

Well i'm glad I read this post a day after I just bought the Momentus XT damnit . But we'll have to see so I'll keep you guys posted on my findings.

[Piplodocus]

Well i'm glad I read this post a day after I just bought the Momentus XT damnit . But we'll have to see so I'll keep you guys posted on my findings.

Let us know good or bad! Give it a few days of good use across a few projects...

What are you putting it in?

[Wunjo]

And one thing I forgot to mention is: From my understanding these drives are not true solid state drives. They only mimic them by using an algorithm thats updates according to your most frequent tasks and makes them more easily accesible. Maybe there is some sort of hang-up here and how ableton or any daw stores it's samples for playback. I might be eating my words in a couple of weeks but I have faith that this drive can work well it just needs to be fine tuned to audio performance. Which brings up this topic: is there any web-site that is devoted to hardware/software reviews specifically for music production? I mean you can look up things like "best laptop for music production" but it will usually only direct you to a forum of user opinions and such.

[Piplodocus]

Who's using it with SATA 3Gbit/s, and who with 1.5GBit per sec?

Mine's running at 3Gbit/s. There's rumours that forcing it to run at 1.5GBit/s can reduce problems!?!? I figured my mac is 3GBit so should be fine. I do have a 2nd drive in there that's running at 1.5GBit/s. Dunno if different speeds with the intel chipset could cause issues. Haven't seen any documented. For reference to see if there's any common setting/features between different setups which are/aren't having problems:

Pasted from my system info:

Momentus XT:

Intel 5 Series Chipset:

Vendor: Intel
Product: 5 Series Chipset
Link Speed: 3 Gigabit
Negotiated Link Speed: 3 Gigabit
Description: AHCI Version 1.30 Supported

ST95005620AS:

Capacity: 500.11 GB (500,107,862,016 bytes)
Model: ST95005620AS
Revision: SD24
Serial Number: 5YX03C2J
Native Command Queuing: Yes
Queue Depth: 32
Removable Media: No
Detachable Drive: No
BSD Name: disk0
Rotational Rate: 7200
Medium Type: Rotational
Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)
S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified
Volumes:
Capacity: 209.7 MB (209,715,200 bytes)
Writable: Yes
BSD Name: disk0s1
Macintosh HD:
Capacity: 445.74 GB (445,742,911,488 bytes)
Available: 78.58 GB (78,576,603,136 bytes)
Writable: Yes
File System: Journaled HFS+
BSD Name: disk0s2
Mount Point: /

2nd Hitachi (original drive in optibay):

Intel 5 Series Chipset:

Vendor: Intel
Product: 5 Series Chipset
Link Speed: 3 Gigabit
Negotiated Link Speed: 1.5 Gigabit
Description: AHCI Version 1.30 Supported

Hitachi HTS725050A9A362:

Capacity: 500.11 GB (500,107,862,016 bytes)
Model: Hitachi HTS725050A9A362
Revision: PC4ACB1E
Serial Number: 100714PCG420VLJPZKAC
Native Command Queuing: Yes
Queue Depth: 32
Removable Media: No
Detachable Drive: No
BSD Name: disk1
Rotational Rate: 7200
Medium Type: Rotational
Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)
S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified
Volumes:
Capacity: 209.7 MB (209,715,200 bytes)
Writable: Yes
BSD Name: disk1s1
Music Projects HD:
Capacity: 405.96 GB (405,957,541,888 bytes)
Available: 118.42 GB (118,416,166,912 bytes)
Writable: Yes
File System: Journaled HFS+
BSD Name: disk1s2
Mount Point: /Volumes/Music Projects HD
Windows 7:
Capacity: 93.81 GB (93,805,608,960 bytes)
Available: 35.46 GB (35,463,168,000 bytes)
Writable: No
File System: NTFS
BSD Name: disk1s3
Mount Point: /Volumes/Windows 7

[The Landwhale]

Ive got the 500gb momentus xt in my current MacBook pro, 2009 model 2.8ghz and it runs perfect, no issues.
However, I initially had the drive in an older 2008 Unibody MacBook pro and it was completely fucked until I did 2 things.

1.) Update the drives firmware to sd23.

This improved how long it took before beach ball mania, but once the freezing kicked in it was exactly as before.

2.) Tightly wrap the sata cable in aluminum foil.
To my surprise, It actually worked on the older Unibody

I had read somewhere that the sata cable and controller were the real issue with most of the MacBook pros that were having trouble not just with the momentus xt, but many other true ssd's.
Found a forum posting somewhere from a guy who insulated the sata cable in his MacBook pro and eliminated the problem so I figured id try it on mine. To my amazement it worked. YMMV.

If I remember correctly it had something to do with certain logic boards having the problem cables and also the nvidia MCP79 AHCI sata controller causing issues, with lots of different laptop models from different manufacturers. Thing is, my current MacBook pro has the same model Nvidia sata controller as the 2008, but I did not have to insulate the cable on the 2009. Maybe it really is just the cable that's the problem.

[Piplodocus]

LandWhale: could you please go into your About This Mac/More Info, go to Serial-ATA and see what speed it says it's running at: 3Gbit or 1.5GBit? I'm trying to get a better picture of why it works for some and not others.

I've just been getting more glitches this evening and it's driving me nuts. Want to experiment as much as possible in the next day or 2 before the WD goes back in and this goes either back in it's box on a shelf waiting for SD25, in an external caddy for non-time critical use, or back to the shop. It's definitely got more ropey the last day or 2 as it's learned more about the usage patterns.

I downloaded the "manual". It says it has a "standby to access" time of 3s (which is noted as being powered and idle, to spin up), and "off/unpowered" to access of 4.5s. I've disabled "put drive to sleep when possible" in power save, but I'm wondering if the fact that it takes 3s to spin up from idle means if I'm accessing data off it that's "intelligently" been put in the flash memory then it needs to access stuff on the physical platter that 3s spin-up can't be accounted for so I get a good 1s glitch as the drive switches from NAND flash access to rotational drive access.

Dunno why all DAW users wouldn't get this though if they're regularly accessing the same sets + other files/folders on the laptop, some of which will inevitably end up in NAND, and some not.

[commuter]

My unibody macbook pro (late 2008 model)SATA is running @3 gigabit too
i've just upgraded to SD24 firmware by curiosity, and i don't see a difference in performance...
no drop out when using live or watching HD video etc.....
Just did a test with quite a big live set...no problems.
so i'm sorry i can help!
the only difference with you is that i'm running the 320gb model.....

i hope you'll find the solution

[The Landwhale]

LandWhale: could you please go into your About This Mac/More Info, go to Serial-ATA and see what speed it says it's running at: 3Gbit or 1.5GBit? I'm trying to get a better picture of why it works for some and not others.

I've just been getting more glitches this evening and it's driving me nuts. Want to experiment as much as possible in the next day or 2 before the WD goes back in and this goes either back in it's box on a shelf waiting for SD25, in an external caddy for non-time critical use, or back to the shop. It's definitely got more ropey the last day or 2 as it's learned more about the usage patterns.

I downloaded the "manual". It says it has a "standby to access" time of 3s (which is noted as being powered and idle, to spin up), and "off/unpowered" to access of 4.5s. I've disabled "put drive to sleep when possible" in power save, but I'm wondering if the fact that it takes 3s to spin up from idle means if I'm accessing data off it that's "intelligently" been put in the flash memory then it needs to access stuff on the physical platter that 3s spin-up can't be accounted for so I get a good 1s glitch as the drive switches from NAND flash access to rotational drive access.

Dunno why all DAW users wouldn't get this though if they're regularly accessing the same sets + other files/folders on the laptop, some of which will inevitably end up in NAND, and some not.

Mine is running at 3gbit.

If you research this problem you'll come across postings of people who successfully downgraded their EFI to 1.6 or 1.7, and that forced their sata controller to run at 1.5gbit. This seemed to work for some. I was not able to downgrade my EFI firmware with this though, and I'd be a bit nervous trying it on a main machine just in case something goes fucky.

If you're comfortable opening up your computer, seriously, try the aluminum insulation on the sata cable. I just wrapped the sata cable tightly with the foil, connected everything back up, and it solved the issue. I think a few places sell new sata cables that would work properly for around $30, but I would try the aluminum first to make sure it actually solves the issue. Mine worked with the foil until I moved to this newer MBP that didn't have issues with the XT, so I never bothered buying a new sata cable for the 2008.

In regards to other people using them, I think they've just got a really bad reputation, understandably so. The drives seem to have caused a lot of headaches for people, and unless you're lucky enough to have a hardware configuration it plays nice with out of the box, you're in for a real pain in the ass. I was ready to return mine until I did the foil. It drove me insane for days trying to get the drive working.

Now that mine is up and running with no issues, it is awesome. Not as fast as a real SSD, but once the drive "learns" what you access regularly, those SPECIFIC files and applications load pretty friggin quick.
It takes several reboots before it learns what you're using alot, and this will change as your current file and application frequency changes.