Detroit Techno on Ableton - Need your help/How to

[TechnoLover]

I would be really interested in information about these swings... I finally use the native Ableton 909 drum kits (Alteration one) so I guess I've to add the groove myself... So if anyone can give me information about it or give me the ones that were posted, that would be more than helpful

[leedsquietman]

One thing Marshall Jefferson says on the Gearslutz forum, is that for a long time (while he wasn't very musically proficient in the first few years), is that he used to compose at a really slow bpm in his MIDI sequencer, then up the tempo significantly. He also used some quite primitive technology in those early days. He also is a producer who doesn't like to slam things too much with compression, which goes against the grain of that genre quite a bit.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/q-marshall-jefferson/

you might find some of the info / q and a's interesting.

[pepezabala]

there are 909 swings in the 909 sample pack of Chris Randall http://www.analogindustries.com/free.php

[TechnoLover]

you guys are crazy I never saw a forum with a so big knowledge and with people friendly users answering so fast...

So, i gotta open these "swing" wav's and extract the groove from them to add it on my clips, right?

I tried these CR-909 grooves but it doesn't sound well on 1/16 and i don't hear the difference on 1/32 with my native ableton swing...

[Senban]

in case you havn't bought the book yet.

you can take a look here

http://books.google.com/books?id=opzZzF ... &q&f=false

google scanned this book for its library

regards

[tw1nstates]

909 shuffle is pretty basic.

Don't make the mistake of so many dudes that get hung up on a particular piece of gear or recreating swing exactly or whatever. It's bullshit.

Find out why the 909 shuffle is good, and then re-create it in ableton. But, it' actually not 909 shuffle that's funky, it's all shuffle. Go and look it up and do a bit of reading. That way you are teaching yourself to fish and not just eating a fish for a day. Actually in the case of this analogy it's more like eating a photocopy of a fish rather than learning how to photocopy them yourself. Actual fishing (to stretch the analogy) would be learning to play the drums. Stuff the 909 they are over priced, need loads of processin to sound good these days and you could just get an emulator and run it through some outboard for loads less...

Anyway, back to the point - understand this good groove is all about moving time around the grid. Try and get your head around that. A good recommendation would be find someone who's a jazz drummer and get them to teach you about groove. Learn to tap out rhythms, get them to teach you to play follow or whatever - they play a rhythm you play it back.. All of this 'hard work' (ear training too) - actually simplifies the process so much it's unbelievable. You can learn about synthesis all over the place but this isn't something you can learn so easily on you tube 9actually you probably can)

Seriously, best advice anyone will give you - go and pay someone to teach you basic rhythm fundamentals. if you get your head around why certain grooves work that's a few years off the time it's going to take you to get to the point where you are making original and good music...

Listen to some of the latter day stuff like moodymann (some of it's shit some good) and you can hear a lot of groove in that kind of music mostly cos he's sneaking in bits of real playing by way of sampling stuff... (ok it's not detroit techno in that sense but it's still the same ball park) A lot of the detroit stuff is very very simplistic. Those guys weren't great musicians (for the most part) so they are approximating stuff.

You probably wont bother getting someone to teach you rhythm (go for a good Jazz guy not a rock drummer) but if you did you will notice your rhythmical content of your music literally leap forward. Especially when they start teaching you about constructing stuff out of groups of 2 and 3 (but making it work within 4/4.
At the end of the day most dance msic is about dancing so a goo dunderstanding of how that shit works and why is invaluable and speeds everything up...




Chicago house is fiunky, cos of the way it was programmed and the fact that a lot of it used loops of disco records as well.



http://www.goldbaby.co.nz/freestuff.html

[TechnoLover]

thanks all!!! Keep posting I am still open for any new tips ^^

[ikeaboy]

My influences are DJ Rolando,Underground Resistance, Jeff Mills, Juan Atkins, Carl Craig, ... and my favorite Derrick May and Joey Beltram

All the above tips are good. Your influences all have quiet different sounds. I'd say limit the amount of processing and effects you use. These guys didn't have access to endless plug-ins, it was all about getting original great sounds from tweaking analogue and FM synths. Along with the drum programming get that foundation right before you add lots of plug ins. Derrick May never starts with the drums while producing, people should be able to dance to just the synths, then add the drums. Carl Craig uses processed 909 samples on an MPC rather than the real thing. Joey Beltram mixed his early tracks, like Energy Flash and Mentasm, through a DJ mixer. Juan Atkins uses Korg workstations, check out the Legacy collection M1 for your piano sounds etc... Good luck

[TechnoLover]

thanks

[TechnoLover]

up

[3phase]

909 shuffle is pretty basic.

Don't make the mistake of so many dudes that get hung up on a particular piece of gear or recreating swing exactly or whatever. It's bullshit.

Find out why the 909 shuffle is good, and then re-create it in ableton.


http://www.goldbaby.co.nz/freestuff.html

you guys are the wright techno specialists

but sorry ...you are recreational "artists" also known as copy cats and you dont have a clue about the idea behind techno...
its all dance music is a bit to big common denominator.. it dont needs to be dance music but it needs to be inovative and original..
that excludes all copycat attitudes. only people that dont have the skills claim otherwise.
techno is no sampling music..its syntheziser music.


Beside that the difference between detroid and other techno is for the main part that the guys are actually able to play some keyboard and dont rely totaly to theire step editors or 1 bar loops.. thats point one..
and second, they dont use style presets.. you cant really say that one of the original artists sounds even close to the other while you guys sound all the same but are 1000´s instead of a handfull inovativ minds..

so you can copy the swing of a 909 as you want..it wont get you any closer when you dont simulate the user ineraction with a 909..

thats my tip at this point.. and i wont get any deeper in that because i dont support your evil doings

[neal909]

if your finished using loops your in trouble as swing is a loop, most commonly 16th note.
keeping things simple drag a techno pattern into lives audio editor and you can see the swing, you can play around with this to your taste.
the bass will be harder, the artists you mention above have used all sorts to generate there bass lines- guitar, sunbaths, samplers. a lot of Detroit stuff, eg some moodymann tracks has got no basslines.
a lot of the 'interest' in Detroit techno is based around the high hats and snares,
you could use a few samples from a movie the more blatant the better.

[TechnoLover]

I finally made my rythmic patterns on a real TR-909 and this brought me an amazing sound! I took some old VST's to create my strings and also to make a "percusive melody" such as the one in Rolando's Jaguar... I finaly achieved to mix some old disco touch with some deep detroit sounds and i love the result!

Will show you to your guys as soon as my master is okay, but it wouldn't have been possible without you guys... thank you! and keep posting, it's important to keep learning!

[Trypset]

how bout saving some groove templates off the 909 for us please

[ScarKord]

what about the bassline? I guess it's better to use a TB-303 (as bassline not lead of course)

A lot classic Detroit techno actually uses FM synthesis for it's basslines rather than 303's, particularly some of the better known Derrick May / Rhythm is Rhythm stuff which I think used the Yamaha DX-100. Check out "Nude Photo" for example:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu8cos8w ... re=related

You can get pretty close to that sound with something like Native Instruments FM8. Here's an example of one of my own tracks that uses FM8 for the bassline (not that I'm suggesting this is Detroit techno!)

http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_3448569