Reamping and overdrive pedals

[3phase]

sorry, I wasn't aware the fact, that you know more about it than me. my apologies.

dont let them fool you.. and dont appologize.
Its bull when claiming valveamps need to be broken to sound differnt than transistor amps.. he has read some technical books and probably misses the half of it..

its only true that the theoretical ideal valve dont has an own sound to it as the theoretical ideal transistor dont has an own sound to it..

but of cause this is not true in practize and as there are certain valves that reach much higher prices than the same type from another company there are certain japanese mosfet transistors that are more or less payed theire weight in gold just because they do sound different.

and that dont even tales into consideration that valve amps have a total differnt circuit design taht on its own just sounds differnt than the basic circuit design for a transistor amp..

when you really try to aim valve sounds with transistors it gets rather expensiv so usually people prefer valves to reach that goal.


However most modern equipment that has a valve in it is not really doing valve sound..
they just distort in certain ways that really dont need a valve for.

Big part of the real valve sound is the involved transformator coupling..
so without iron the valve alone is in most cases a pretty useless optical gadget.

[3phase]

Why do you ever need to go near a preamp?

You could go in the interface DI. Reamp box out to the amp. Mic that up for FOH, DI out of ableton for your wet delays..

Well that's this is exactly my question. Can I do this? I appreciate your answer but have you done this with overdrive pedals? I remember trying to have od pedals with guitar rig 4. I was using the amp models from guitar rig but the clipping was terrible when I turned on the od pedal. it wasn't that I "clipped" the mic input it's just how od pedals work with mic preamps. But if this "clipped" signal goes into a guitar amp input how will it sound?

why do you use mic pres than? sounds like that you have overloaded the inputstage so badly that the signal was squashed before it even got to the converter and the following level indication.. use the line input instead than,
your distortion pedals are nothing else than really bad preamps.
And its a myth that you need to A/D with full level.. -10 db is totally enough and -20 is allwright too.. you can gain that up with the utility plug when yo need that.. but when your reamping box is working correctly it probably also preffers to dont be driven with fullscale level..

i play guitar via distortion pedal into my mixing desk line ins often..no problem at all.. or use my nord modular line inputs to plug a gutar directly and boost that up internally..hard to belive..but the nordmodular gives a pretty god guitar fx machine when you want it to be.

i understand your "transparency" problem now.. you were pushing the limits of your input with your distortion pedals all the time.. so the line inputs are your friend than

[kanuck]

why do you use mic pres than? sounds like that you have overloaded the inputstage so badly that the signal was squashed before it even got to the converter and the following level indication.. use the line input instead than,
your distortion pedals are nothing else than really bad preamps.
And its a myth that you need to A/D with full level.. -10 db is totally enough and -20 is allwright too.. you can gain that up with the utility plug when yo need that.. but when your reamping box is working correctly it probably also preffers to dont be driven with fullscale level..

i play guitar via distortion pedal into my mixing desk line ins often..no problem at all.. or use my nord modular line inputs to plug a gutar directly and boost that up internally..hard to belive..but the nordmodular gives a pretty god guitar fx machine when you want it to be.

i understand your "transparency" problem now.. you were pushing the limits of your input with your distortion pedals all the time.. so the line inputs are your friend than

i own a saffire 6 usb. therefore the mic pres work for both mics and instruments with a push in button. So everything I was speaking about mic pres was pretty much line ins.

[3phase]

why do you use mic pres than? sounds like that you have overloaded the inputstage so badly that the signal was squashed before it even got to the converter and the following level indication.. use the line input instead than,
your distortion pedals are nothing else than really bad preamps.
And its a myth that you need to A/D with full level.. -10 db is totally enough and -20 is allwright too.. you can gain that up with the utility plug when yo need that.. but when your reamping box is working correctly it probably also preffers to dont be driven with fullscale level..

i play guitar via distortion pedal into my mixing desk line ins often..no problem at all.. or use my nord modular line inputs to plug a gutar directly and boost that up internally..hard to belive..but the nordmodular gives a pretty god guitar fx machine when you want it to be.

i understand your "transparency" problem now.. you were pushing the limits of your input with your distortion pedals all the time.. so the line inputs are your friend than

i own a saffire 6 usb. therefore the mic pres work for both mics and instruments with a push in button. So everything I was speaking about mic pres was pretty much line ins.

thatshould give a clean signal than on line level..if it doesnt something is wrong with your pedals or cabels

[Laurens48711]

sorry, I wasn't aware the fact, that you know more about it than me. my apologies.

dont let them fool you.. and dont appologize.
Its bull when claiming valveamps need to be broken to sound differnt than transistor amps.. he has read some technical books and probably misses the half of it..

its only true that the theoretical ideal valve dont has an own sound to it as the theoretical ideal transistor dont has an own sound to it..

but of cause this is not true in practize and as there are certain valves that reach much higher prices than the same type from another company there are certain japanese mosfet transistors that are more or less payed theire weight in gold just because they do sound different.

and that dont even tales into consideration that valve amps have a total differnt circuit design taht on its own just sounds differnt than the basic circuit design for a transistor amp..

when you really try to aim valve sounds with transistors it gets rather expensiv so usually people prefer valves to reach that goal.


However most modern equipment that has a valve in it is not really doing valve sound..
they just distort in certain ways that really dont need a valve for.

Big part of the real valve sound is the involved transformator coupling..
so without iron the valve alone is in most cases a pretty useless optical gadget.

Hahaha, dude quit making dumb statements just for the sake of disagree-ing with other people here.

Truth be told, he has a point that you certainly shouldn't apologize, but then again I probably know more about the subject, I don't know.

[YILA]

Why do you ever need to go near a preamp?

You could go in the interface DI. Reamp box out to the amp. Mic that up for FOH, DI out of ableton for your wet delays..

Well that's this is exactly my question. Can I do this? I appreciate your answer but have you done this with overdrive pedals? I remember trying to have od pedals with guitar rig 4. I was using the amp models from guitar rig but the clipping was terrible when I turned on the od pedal. it wasn't that I "clipped" the mic input it's just how od pedals work with mic preamps. But if this "clipped" signal goes into a guitar amp input how will it sound?

Yes I've used overdrive pedals.. lots of different ones! But what I'm saying is I don't use amp simulation at all because I hate it, I mostly used LIVE for chopping my guitar, grain delay, looping etc then that came out to an amp where on stage I could hear it like a real guitar.

You could take anything out that's stereo (Delays) before the amp and then the sound man would mix with the mic'd up amp sound? It's going to be a different tone to the amp but for me sounds like the grain delays sound much nicer DI'd straight to the PA mixed with a dirty guitar sound. Make sense?

I was also using a DI on the fireface that actually distorts quite nicely when pushed, it reacts similarly to the way the guitar amp would.

[3phase]

Hahaha, dude quit making dumb statements just for the sake of disagree-ing with other people here.

Truth be told, he has a point that you certainly shouldn't apologize, but then again I probably know more about the subject, I don't know.

Laurens..you do the dumb statements al the time and this with such a flair of knowing arrogance that people tend to belife your bullshit.. why you dont you try some things you have read in recording magazines in practize before doing statemens regarding issues you dont klnow much?

[YILA]

Hahaha, dude quit making dumb statements just for the sake of disagree-ing with other people here.

Truth be told, he has a point that you certainly shouldn't apologize, but then again I probably know more about the subject, I don't know.

Laurens..you do the dumb statements al the time and this with such a flair of knowing arrogance that people tend to belife your bullshit.. why you dont you try some things you have read in recording magazines in practize before doing statemens regarding issues you dont klnow much?

Yeh why do I when the time went backwards say guitar mic valve experiment augmentation basketball guitar.

[Laurens48711]

Hahaha, dude quit making dumb statements just for the sake of disagree-ing with other people here.

Truth be told, he has a point that you certainly shouldn't apologize, but then again I probably know more about the subject, I don't know.

Laurens..you do the dumb statements al the time and this with such a flair of knowing arrogance that people tend to belife your bullshit.. why you dont you try some things you have read in recording magazines in practize before doing statemens regarding issues you dont klnow much?

Get a life dude. Do you really think you can trick me into defending myself to a nitwit like you? Just stop using peoples topics to shout and call other peoples advice bullshit.

[3phase]

Get a life dude. Do you really think you can trick me into defending myself to a nitwit like you? Just stop using peoples topics to shout and call other peoples advice bullshit.

trick you to deffend? there is nothing to defend your bullshit.. but i am pretty certain that you dont know that

[YILA]

Every time I try to type something useful on this Forum this guy just types crap and offends everyone..

[Piplodocus]

Tubes overdrive nice.

Normal solid state (like mic pre's) overdrive nastily.

Solid state DISTORTION/OVERDRIVE pedals are specifically designed to overdrive like a tube (soft clipping), so overdrive nice.

Don't overdrive the mic pre! Preferably set it to Hi-Z instrument (rather than line) input to give better impedance matching so you don't get a woolly sound (or maybe use something like a VHT Valvulator so it's like a proper guitar input stage).

HOWEVER, YOU SAID IT WAS FOR GUITAR FX LIVE: Note most delay based FX (chorus/phase/pitch shift/loopers/delay/reverb) go POST preamp/pre-power amp in a guitar setup. So you may sound a LOT better going:

Guitar->Amp Input->Amp Preamp Section (with/without distortion)->Amp FX send->soundcard in/ableton/soundcard out->FX return->Speaker cab

If the FX Send signal is too hot for the soundcard enable any attenuators/turn down the Clean/Distortion Level from the preamp. If the signal coming back from the computer to FX send is low you may need to max the soundcard output/insert a small booster mixer. This depends entirely on the knob settings/design of your guitar amp.

If it hums like hell you've got a ground loop, and will need some kinda isolating transformer.

[Piplodocus]

Sorry, just re-read the post. As I said:

If the FX Send signal is too hot for the soundcard enable any attenuators on it.
Turn down the Clean/Distortion channel Levels on the guitar amp preamp section; this will reduce the levels coming out the FX send. Then turn up the master volume to compensate.

If the signal coming back from the computer to FX return is low you may need to max the soundcard output/insert a small booster mixer. This depends entirely on the knob settings/design of your guitar amp and how much preamp/power amp gain it has. Try it and see! If in doubt just turn down the distortion/clean volumes to nothing, then turn it back up gradully while monitoring the levels in Ableton. Note the Clean guitar sound is far more likely to overdrive the sound card preamp as the distortion clipping compresses the signal; so although it may sound louder it doesn't contain nearly such high short peaks as the clean.

Any loss of tone will depend on how good your sound card is, and whether you're comparing it to the A/D in a cheap modelling pedal, or something nice and transparent like a TC G-force.