Holy...Focusrite VRM Box

[LoopStationZebra]

I've owned Focusrite products in the past and they've always been top notch. That's not really the point. My gimmick comment was somewhat tongue in cheek, but....

Hasn't this kind of sound environment emulation been a Holy Grail for enthusiasts for quite some time? With mixed results at best?

I'd be interested in getting Tarekith's take on this...

why? because he has read the bob katz book and became a jedi knight that way?

Because in my view he's one of the most knowledgeable guys on this forum about mixing/mastering/recording. And he's got the wavs to prove it.

its pretty obvious that peple that sell monitor speaker simulations or studio mike simulations are in the snake oil biz..

Focusrite? I don't think so. If it's done right it could be a nice baseline from which to test your recordings/mix/mastering. My tendency is to be fairly suspicious of this kind of device (just as I am suspicious of Motu's ZBox - which claims *somewhat dubiously* to give you the sound of a 'real amp!' when using amp emulation software. It's just a DI box, really). I think these are gimmicks in a certain sense, but that doesn't mean that they won't be useful.

[macmurphy]

for the ultimate in portability you could try this - http://www.toneboosters.com/tb-isone/.

i don't have this new version but i use the original to check mixes etc and it works well.

of course there is no substitute for using monitors but when it's not practical or you want a different perspective on your sound
it's very useful.

[lasersounds]

and what the hell does this have to do with the laws of physics? why wouldn't there be "real low end"? and why couldn't there be "real room resonances or dynamic distortion"?

headphones cant reproduce bass accurately, its a fact. i really doubt a little box can make your headphones magically sound like 5 different sets of rooms and monitors.

it may make your mix sound a little different, but i dont see how listening on a couple of different fake "rooms" will make your mix any better.

different strokes i guess, but i dont like to waste my money.

[fishmonkey]

unfortunately these kind of mass-produced devices are bound to be a bit half-assed.

firstly, there's a visceral physical sensation you get from lower bass frequencies that you can't reproduce using headphones.

secondly, to work well, the convolution needs to be done using a model of YOUR ears/head/body.

that said, it will be interesting to try these out. you never know, you might get lucky and the algorithms and models might just suit the way you hear.

certainly won't be any silver bullet though...

[LoopStationZebra]

From the standpoint of a good starting point in which to find that mix sweet spot in which your track will sound good across multiple environments, this could be handy. But as others have pointed out we'll not know until it's tried and then compared to the actual environments. The variables, though, are the real kicker. Everyone will have different expectations as to what any given environment should sound like or is comprised of in a physical sense.

I know there's been others who have tried this, but damn if I can think of any specific names, lol. Didn't Bose offer something along these lines awhile back?

[Khazul]

I remember trying out that 112dB redline monitor plugin that tries to do this kind of thing - ie re-rpduce near field monitors in a pair of cans, but without the room simulation - end result actually was not bad at all. Of course it didnt fix the really fundamental issue most have with mixing on cans - namely the wierd bass response you get with cans.

I would suprised if this can do much about it as well (without alot of tweak controls to suit the specific user + cans) - kind of like those room compenstation processors you get in some monitoring systems now. I think doing this kind of thing in headphone could work better (less 'room' to worry about), but I would still expect the bass to be wierd.

If they can get around that - then I would be very impressedn and potentially then it might seema great solution when its this or just straight cans.

[McQ714]

headphones cant reproduce bass accurately, its a fact. i really doubt a little box can make your headphones magically sound like 5 different sets of rooms and monitors.

it may make your mix sound a little different, but i dont see how listening on a couple of different fake "rooms" will make your mix any better.

different strokes i guess, but i dont like to waste my money.

but does room resonance really have anything to do with the whether or not the sound is accurate? i don't think so.. but hey i'm no expert. i would think that the sound being heard from a pair of headphones would be a lot more accurate than the same audio being played through speakers because of the way the audio is being bounced around a room before it gets to your ears. with headphones, the audio isn't bouncing around the room. if you were to record the sound being output from your monitors, it's never going to be the same WAV as would be rendered from your DAW to begin with. this isn't the question here though. it's whether or not they can make a piece of software and hardware unit to reproduce the audio the way it would sound if you were using those different speakers or sitting in a different room. and if they can measure the way that audio signal is altered inside a room or when using different types of speakers, than this is absolutely possible. it's as simple as an algorithm being applied to the digital audio before it is output. i'm sure there are plenty of articles against my opinion so point them out to me... i'd love to read them.

i will say this, i use a pair of ultrasone dj1 pros, which are also the same as their pro 550s, and they sound very much like what i'm hearing from my jbl 2.1 monitor system aside from the deep sub bass which needs the 10" sub i have to be heard.

[sebastienleger]

Sebastien Leger is producing his music on simple PC speakers for $10...
No Joke...!!!

He said, that he is used to them and how they sound.

So much to the needs for big studio equipment or simulators of big budget environment.
If you know what you do, you can do it on PC speakers...
And he uses Ableton too...

To be honest: I can't !
I am not such a talent...

sure... ..dont belife the hype.. he is maybe prodicing his music to deliver it in stems to a mastering engineer and with some experiance that will give better results than a bad mix in a medicre studio

Sorry mate, all my stuff is mixed down and mastered in MY studio with these little speakers yes, by me only.

The only mastering we do is for vinyls, as it's a different process for that format, but still the master is delivered by me, in my own studio.

Expensive speakers are bullshit, i tryed many of them during the years, Mackie, Genelec, Yamaha, Tannoy etc... The best result always come from those tiny speakers, I rarely need to touch the mix down once it's finished, play it in club, sounds just like it is in my studio. Pure miracle speakers

btw, there is a sub woofer on the floor that come with of course, otherwise there won't be any base at all without it !

[ze2be]

Diferent headphones have different cones. Can you set your headphone brand in the software prefs?
If not, its bound to sound different on different headphones.

[polyslax]

i don't see Focusrite as a company that relies on gimmicks to make money. they've always had excellent channel strips, pre amps, and interfaces.. and they liquid mix was pretty highly acclaimed for it's hardware modeling. i think they know what they're doing.

Depends who you read.

Why No Focusrite?

[steko]

Sebastien Leger is producing his music on simple PC speakers for $10...
No Joke...!!!

He said, that he is used to them and how they sound.

So much to the needs for big studio equipment or simulators of big budget environment.
If you know what you do, you can do it on PC speakers...
And he uses Ableton too...

To be honest: I can't !
I am not such a talent...

sure... ..dont belife the hype.. he is maybe prodicing his music to deliver it in stems to a mastering engineer and with some experiance that will give better results than a bad mix in a medicre studio

Sorry mate, all my stuff is mixed down and mastered in MY studio with these little speakers yes, by me only.

The only mastering we do is for vinyls, as it's a different process for that format, but still the master is delivered by me, in my own studio.

Expensive speakers are bullshit, i tryed many of them during the years, Mackie, Genelec, Yamaha, Tannoy etc... The best result always come from those tiny speakers, I rarely need to touch the mix down once it's finished, play it in club, sounds just like it is in my studio. Pure miracle speakers

btw, there is a sub woofer on the floor that come with of course, otherwise there won't be any base at all without it !

[Cezband]

The best result always come from those tiny speakers, I rarely need to touch the mix down once it's finished, play it in club, sounds just like it is in my studio. Pure miracle speakers

btw, there is a sub woofer on the floor that come with of course, otherwise there won't be any base at all without it!

Don't fancy telling us which miracle speakers these are, precisely? Just out of interest more than anything else - are you truly talking about a pair of craptacular PC World "Gaming and Multimedia" speakers?

Regarding the VRM box, it's never going to be accurate in the way it says it is, becuase the sound will always be coloured by the cans you're using. It seems like if Person A asked what a pair of KRKs sound like, so Person B spent ages putting mics on a pair of KRKs and recording the sound coming out painstakingly, then sending that audio file to Person A who then listens to it through a pair of Genelecs or whatever.

I think it will be interesting to hear your audio getting coloured a bunch of different ways, but useful...? If I want to colour my sound I can just pace about my room or something, adjust how my cans sit on my head, listen with a hat on....

I think I'm getting a bit silly but I was trying to make some sort of point. Arf!

[steko]

YouTube - Sébastien Léger - On The Fly ?

[3dot...]

I agree with sebastien...
as long as albums you like are enjoyable to you on your speakers ..
and you know them well... (and you have the experience ..)
there's really no need to for fancy shmancy speakers !
but that's some funny stuff on that vid....
a nice and minimal signal flow
(aching for that TLAudio desktop unit btw)
until it reaches the end!!! wtf ??
wow those speakers are funny !!! they better have a subWoofer
what can I say ... whatever works...is the only rule
(especially in 'dance music')

btw sebastien...what kind of headphones do you use?

[koranek]

I've been using the Saffire pro 24 DSP for a few weeks now. I've tried it for listening to several finished mixes with various VRM settings with my AKG 702's.

One thing that is does pretty well (again, not perfectly) is change my perception of the stereo field. I notice this especially when switching VRM on and off. I get much more of a sense of a natural stereo field, instead of separate channels in each ear.

The downside is that the position of instruments in the field seems to fluctuate a little bit. Still it's better than without VRM.

I don't intend to use this to mix. But it's another tool to test a mix, just like turning the volume really low.

There are several videos on the focusrite website that explain the process of VRM. It's definitely more than a bunch of eq curves.