Ableton Forum

3phase wrote:

Khazul wrote:In a word No!

Can people still make excellent (and where nescessary tight) music with live? - Yes.

Cubase 6 does the job perfectly - allways. I still dont use the damn thing even when I know live is having a flake out session becuase TBH its a pain int he arse to use compared to Live (except for certain specific tasks that it is rather good for).

Else have fun with reaper - cu back in a few month when you have finallyy had enough of the menus and dialogs etc.

true..you should go logic wright away... its useless to even think about live when you are an automater.
Logic with one of the dedicated motorfader controlers will safe you month in life time.. the learning curve is a bit steeper..but once you are settled its way faster to operate thanks to many possible keycommands and especially handling algos for the automation data, when you edit allready automated projekts.. and its cheaper than live... so you can spend the safed money on the motorfader controler.. a logic control from mackie can go surprisingly cheap theese days

and dont worry about the barfing fanboys..some have forgotten theire plugs and that makes them grumpy. Its no ableton dissing when somebody that wants to do a lot of automation gets warned to use life for that.. and that the issues stay are a decade old now is not promissing either.. keep in mind that logic had a perfectly working automation allready before live even exsisted..that says it all somehow...

however..there are some strong points with ableton live when you want design more complex automated fx where one knob changes multiple parameters at once...

so controling parameters is in life quicker accesible and has some interesting options.. the editing of this controler moves is another question but just the knob moving live can be more fun...

however.. the op sounds like someone that is more on the editing side of things and than its no question that logic with multiple screen support and userdefinable editor windows is king... you can have an arrangement overview on one screen and zoomed view that shows the automation lanes of the same track on another screen while having an audio editor on screen 3...

and this all working with sample precision.. and the automation modes latch and trim... you can edit automated tracks in realtime without to have to draw any little shit in..
with the wright controler that safes lots of time... while life tends to erase your automation data allready set easily ...and than you draw again..after doing each track zoom individually by hand again...

dozends of moves that need in logic one click.. recall screenset x/y.. done.. or keycomands to zoom the track you are in... and and ..

live is lightyeras away from that state logic allready had reached at the end of the 90´s and its not really the philosophy behind life to be a real postproduction daw.. at least they behave like that for many years otherwise we would have timecode support that works since yyears.. thats the demand No.1 in a postpro enviroment. so its rather mean to try to sell anybody life that is into automation and editing

however..logic and live acomplemet each other pretty good when you like some of lifes features ..you can rewire it in logic

* Song templates with pre-configured tracks and routing
* Supports AIFF, WAV, MP3, Ogg Vorbis and FLAC files
* VST and AU support; automatic plug-in delay compensation
* REX file support plus built-in audio to MIDI slicing
* Video import and export for scoring, video warping

VagentillGud wrote:Okey,so i downloaded the demo of Reaper, but it looked like the things that can make me hate computer programs. Donno, maybe i judged it too quickly, but anyways, you guys speaking about Logic, im a PC guy, how about Cubase?

Khazul wrote:FFS - its not that big of a deal - yes its yet another annoyance to work around and watch for and Ill be happy when they finally sort it out, but if you like live's workflow, then it isnt a reason to not use live.
If I hit the problem in a way I cant easily workaround (for eg by reodering plugins), then I just bounce the audio and move the affected plugins to be the first in the chain on the bounced audio.

VagentillGud wrote:Okey ill check cubase out. But i just wondered, i really want to be able to just use Ableton, cause ive really gotten to like it so far, though i have not really "used it" yet, as i feel kinda lost compared to what im used to. So do you think Ableton will fix this anytime soon? And for those of you who cant use this app alone cause of this, what do you use Live for? Do you do your songs in other programs first, making all the loops, and then export them to Live and play with them to scetch out arrangement or what? And then arrange and automate in you main app after that?

Tone Deft wrote:

Khazul wrote:FFS - its not that big of a deal - yes its yet another annoyance to work around and watch for and Ill be happy when they finally sort it out, but if you like live's workflow, then it isnt a reason to not use live.
If I hit the problem in a way I cant easily workaround (for eg by reodering plugins), then I just bounce the audio and move the affected plugins to be the first in the chain on the bounced audio.

+ a million

you're just inventing problems. stop standing on the side of the pool wondering if there are sharks, just make some music with that you got.

3phase wrote:its hard to change once you are settled..especially with a program tat has a so differnt workflow likle ableton life.. i consider this program as a trap that has dammaged my production quality but leaves you in a position where its hard to totaly go awy from it but living with anoying drawbacks for so many years is also eatuing your mood and gets audible at so many points..