Ableton Forum

If you have the HD space, clone your drive and upgrade the clone to try it.
I have lion installed on a spare partition but not actually got round to trying audio apps with yet. Audio drivers for my various audio interfaces seem ok, but not actively played with it much. Just used for dev testing occasionally.

I don't really see anything special going on with Lion. Some new gestures for the trackpad... meh. I rarely use the current gestures. Launchpad is just a gimmick. I have instant access to my applications right now. I don't need to see them iPad style to know that. Mission control... same as Exposé with some new bells and whistles. Full screen apps... but only Apple apps, yeah? Thank you, Apple, for the extra screen real estate to read Mail 5 that now looks like an iDevice.

They fail to list any performance improvements in the list of features. I would assume there are at least a few, but I won't shell out until I see what they are. I'm getting less and less impressed with Apple's OS updates. The only reason I have Snow Leopard now is because Apple installed it during a logic board replacement after repeatedly asking me which OS I was running. Maybe they had to use Snow Leopard because of the new logic board? I don't know... What got to me about that whole situation is they had me too worried to downgrade back to Leopard, and I was forced to buy Snow Leopard in order to have the installation disc in case I need to boot from it. Ah well...

In my opinion, the new OS looks less like a Lion, and more like a Tabby.

There’s some rumors flying around that they may price it like Snow Leopard at $29, especially if it’s sold as a download on the App Store.

Still won’t instantly jump on the bandwagon, but just realized I have 3 Macs and could test it on one that’s less essential.

I'm holding off upgrading my macbook and imac for another month - Will they come pre loaded with Lion at that time? Need to upgrade now if this is the case....

it's really down to your hardware - M-Audio used to be notoriously slow updating their drivers - although in some cases if you upgraded the OS and the driver was already installed you would be okay because it was the installer that got broke and took MAudio 6 months to update

with snow leopard I found it to be only improvements on leopard - like a bunch of tweaks to make it better so I had no problems at all, only improvements

but I guess Lion would be a more extensive upgrade if they're changing the type of cat

beats me wrote:Never upgrade to a new OS until at least 6 months after it's release.

But a bunch of retards will do it anyway and then we get to hear them whine about it. Looking forward.

100% agree here.. But... There will be new machines with no downgrade path.. What do you suggest doing in that case?

Perhaps if Apple open up the iCloud API to developers after Lion is released; then the share feature of Live might return (with Live Sets being stored on iCloud servers) - I reckon the server overhead of hosting the Live Set files is what killed that feature in the first place.

Tarekith wrote:I've always upgraded OS's the day Apple releases them, can't remember ever having a single issue with music apps doing so.

Maybe I'm thick or just lucky but me too, never had a single problem.

Edit: Although, as has been stated here, it never hurts to wait awhile. I'll have to check it out and would probably test it on my older MBP and do a mirror backup.

I'm still on Leopard (10.5) My machine runs hot but still functions as I need it to. We'll see how it goes after my Live 8 install.

Piplodocus I love your signal flow! Awesome

The Lion move will have to wait for me.

azmills wrote: Piplodocus I love your signal flow! Awesome

cheers! Thought it was more descriptive than a list of stuff! (and prettier)

After swapping my HDD AGAIN I seem to have finally stopped my ongoing audio glitch problem. Maybe I should install Lion ASAP as I haven't got any excuses for not making any great new music at the moment!

anybody human wrote:

Tarekith wrote:I've always upgraded OS's the day Apple releases them, can't remember ever having a single issue with music apps doing so.

Maybe I'm thick or just lucky but me too, never had a single problem.

Edit: Although, as has been stated here, it never hurts to wait awhile. I'll have to check it out and would probably test it on my older MBP and do a mirror backup.

the new "versions" and "autosave" features worry me from a realtime audio perspective. Audio performance requires heavy disk I/O for most of us. what would be required to pull off this versioning feature IMHO may significantly effect disk performance. constantly saving files? sounds like an audio workstation performance nightmare.

I'll be holding of on lion on my music machine for a long time unless you can turn some of these things off.

tempus3r wrote:

anybody human wrote:

Tarekith wrote:I've always upgraded OS's the day Apple releases them, can't remember ever having a single issue with music apps doing so.

Maybe I'm thick or just lucky but me too, never had a single problem.

Edit: Although, as has been stated here, it never hurts to wait awhile. I'll have to check it out and would probably test it on my older MBP and do a mirror backup.

the new "versions" and "autosave" features worry me from a realtime audio perspective. Audio performance requires heavy disk I/O for most of us. what would be required to pull off this versioning feature IMHO may significantly effect disk performance. constantly saving files? sounds like an audio workstation performance nightmare.

I'll be holding of on lion on my music machine for a long time unless you can turn some of these things off.

Dont worry about it - An application probably needs to specifically support it and do something about it. OTOH other applications running in the background could cause issues, but TBH they can anyway.

I would guess its really for stuff that makes nice self contained files that can be quickly saved without a need for versioned referential version integrity with other files (and TBH - I have no idea if referential version is assisted in any way - be quite cool it it was).

Just saw the updates on the apple site - looks like July for Lion (and maybe Mac Pro refresh?), Sept for iOS 5 (and I guess iPhone 5).

Khazul wrote:Dont worry about it - An application probably needs to specifically support it and do something about it. OTOH other applications running in the background could cause issues, but TBH they can anyway.

I would guess its really for stuff that makes nice self contained files that can be quickly saved without a need for versioned referential version integrity with other files (and TBH - I have no idea if referential version is assisted in any way - be quite cool it it was).

Just saw the updates on the apple site - looks like July for Lion (and maybe Mac Pro refresh?), Sept for iOS 5 (and I guess iPhone 5).

Yeah, there are API's for these new features that developers can use to add the features to their application.
As much as I would love these features in Live, it'll probably as likely end up like Spotlight. A really cool feature that won't be implemented because there is no Windows equivalent.
If Resume, Auto-Save and Version work together flawlessly with Live, we would never lose our undo history. Or any work for that matter.
Probably wouldn't even need Undo history recall depending on how well and fast the Version feature works.

hoffman2k wrote:

Khazul wrote:Dont worry about it - An application probably needs to specifically support it and do something about it. OTOH other applications running in the background could cause issues, but TBH they can anyway.

I would guess its really for stuff that makes nice self contained files that can be quickly saved without a need for versioned referential version integrity with other files (and TBH - I have no idea if referential version is assisted in any way - be quite cool it it was).

Just saw the updates on the apple site - looks like July for Lion (and maybe Mac Pro refresh?), Sept for iOS 5 (and I guess iPhone 5).

Yeah, there are API's for these new features that developers can use to add the features to their application.
As much as I would love these features in Live, it'll probably as likely end up like Spotlight. A really cool feature that won't be implemented because there is no Windows equivalent.
If Resume, Auto-Save and Version work together flawlessly with Live, we would never lose our undo history. Or any work for that matter.
Probably wouldn't even need Undo history recall depending on how well and fast the Version feature works.

The undo history is a per event history of what you do to the actual project (rather than associated files AKAIK). Versioning is just timed snapshot so is no real substitute for full undo.

If live were to support auto-save and versioning properly, then for me the killer feature would be pulling off bits from earlier versions - they dont need platform support for that at all. To make that work properly, then they need to make it so that when you import a track or rack or whatever (ideally an entire group, or return as well) then live should rebind all the routings to existing equivalent tracks or i/o etc - ie something it doesnt do yet and to be is far more important than simply doing auto-save and versioning support and it would directly benefit both platform's users who typically do manual versioning anyway.

I must admit Im very much coming over to the view that Live *should* support useful platform specific features without trying overly hard (or even at all) to simulate them on the other platform even though I use it on both windows and mac.

Since Ive been using it on both I actually find the platform neutrality more of a hinderance than anything now - makes logic seem more useable in some ways even if live still beats it by a long way in overall workflow.

I like the resume concept as well, however you also need to be able to fully restart it as well.


Funny enough - mentioning spotlight reminds me - please ableton - for gods sake speed up library searches for missing samples - 20 mins for live to full a drum rack vs 5 seconds for NI battery to do the same search over the same folders to locate and auto-fill for missing samples just isnt funny at all - it really isnt a useable feature if you have a half decent size sample library. Factor of 100x speedup is needed here.