Which is worse: Dub step or Electro?

[Mint Invader]

Sweet.

[Mint Invader]

Hey Rave whats your soundcloud again. I could use some smooth music at the office right now.

[Rave]

Search for Aron Bas

[Mint Invader]

Got it... smoooooooooooooooooooooooooooothhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Rave]

Thank you

[Theo Void]

I too am a bit late to the Dub-step party. A few years ago when I went to a party and some DJ insisted on playing nothing but dub-step for an hour and a half, I would usually go and buy a lethal dose of heroin, shoot up and hope to die quickly and quietly. (just kidding.) But you get the point. I fucking hated it! But lately, w/ all this "mid-range" bro-step stuff coming out, I'm kinda diggin' it!

I realize that everybody and their mother is hating on this particular style but that always happens when something breaks into mainstream. Either the the original underground fans don't feel "elite" enough anymore or the hipsters discount it because they're way to cool to like something that everyone else likes.

If you go over to the DubStep Forums you'll see how deep the hatred for Skrillex goes. People, (mostly wanna be producers) absolutely hate this dude! I think it's pure jeoulosy but I suspect there are a few dubstep purists who find it loud, noisy, screechy and offensive. I think it's pretty awesome! Dude's got some serious production skills. I mean talk about some surgical edits. And, on top of that there are thousands of threads that are some variation of: "how to make skrillex growling/talking bass." "How to get Skrillex synth using Massive. etc etc. I mean, dude completely took over Beatport for like three weeks. I don't think anyone else has ever achieved that. I'm not the type of person who hates on artist's just because they're popular. I' don't give a fuck how many people like them, if I enjoy the music then I'll listen to it. Shit, I still love Greenday even though I think most people despise them for "selling out."

It's the old "punk" attitude but w/o the attitude. (lol.) I mean, it's popular for a reason, probably because it's good. (Not in all cases, obviously.) But if you listen to this new mid-range dub-step or electro, the stuff is very well produced! It does take some creativity and skill to produce this stuff. Electro, or complextro, (I think they call it.) usually has at least 5-7 bass tracks layered and arranged to complement each other in a call/response fashion. And you need to have a creative mind to think of this shit! I mean, this isn't 4/4 kick + Saw-wave sidecahined to kick + dreamy pad + synth = Respected electronica producer. These days it's way too easy to throw a few loops together and call yourself a producer. These people are mangling the fuck out of audio using these amazing tools we all love so much.

OK I'm done. If you actually read all this I applaud you. So, what do ya think?

[stringtapper]

I still love Greenday even though I think most people despise them for "selling out."

I always hated them, but then I've always hated punk in general coming from the classical/jazz/prog rock schools as I do.

It's like what my friend says about the drummer for Def Leppard: he sucked even when he had two arms.

[Theo Void]

I still love Greenday even though I think most people despise them for "selling out."

I always hated them, but then I've always hated punk in general coming from the classical/jazz/prog rock schools as I do.

It's like what my friend says about the drummer for Def Leppard: he sucked even when he had two arms.

thank god I was in diapers during that craze!!!
I can't fathom how people actually enjoyed hair-metal or a myriad of other things from the 80's. When I see video or movies or sounds from that period it seems so grainy, ugly and depressing. Makes me wanna slit my wrists. (just kidding.)

But seriously Def Leppard= Epitome of Suck!!

[Theo Void]

When it comes to "selling out" I think most people would do just that. I mean, don't most artists ultimately wanna make and sell their work for a living and get it into as many hands as possible?

I was always annoyed by haters of the "sell out." What the fuck does that even mean?

These are people who will NEVER have a chance to sell out.

[Machinesworking]

When it comes to "selling out" I think most people would do just that. I mean, don't most artists ultimately wanna make and sell their work for a living and get it into as many hands as possible?

I was always annoyed by haters of the "sell out." What the fuck does that even mean?

These are people who will NEVER have a chance to sell out.

Hard explaining it to someone who's never really experienced it, but the early 80's hardcore punk scene was completely do it yourself. Most of the time bands played in old labor halls so they could play for people under 21. All the bands were on small labels with no major label attached to them, The promoters for the most part were just serious fans of punk and wanted to do something to make sure say Bad Brains, MDC or Black Flag payed in their town. Since they wanted it all ages it had to be done themselves. Every scene had vastly different music styles emerging because they had no thought in the least of making big money off of music.
Like everything else that's pure but looks like a profit margin waiting to happen, when the major labels moved in things changed. The basic fact is major labels don't like taking major risks, so they signed bands that were vastly popular underground, and left them alone for the first record, then badgered them into making a pop album for the second or dropped them. This happened again with the grunge scene, though bands in that scene were already writing songs that were more populist in lyrics. There's a vast difference between Smells Like Teen Spirits Lyrics and TSOL singing "I want to fuck the dead".
That's the other major selling out point, when for instance with Industrial music you saw Throbbing Gristle singing lyrics about 3rd degree burn victims and serial killers VS later with NIN and his endless songs about loves lost sorrows. I like NIN a bit, but it was obvious that a genre was starting to lose it's bite when he came out. To put that in further perspective Trent Reznor was doing New Wave music at the time that Industrial was gearing up, so it was no surprise.
Nowadays though people throw the word around like it matters on bands that put out an indie label record of Beatles style pop, then get a major label contract. It's as if the major label is the bad part, the bad part is the censorship that the major label can and mostly does bring, it's irrelevant if the band isn't musically or lyrically controversial. So Green Day are sell outs if you think of them in context to TSOL or other more outrageous bands, but since they were always a pussy band, it's not a big deal.

[Theo Void]

I definitely was not around for the advent of punk or even the 80's scene. I'm 27 so I grew up in the 90's. I didn't experience it but I understand the concept. I know about DIY because we've been throwing DIY shows in my local area since I was 11 years old. Back then it was punk and alternative and what not. We still do it to this day except now it's mostly electronic.
I don't make music w/ hopes of getting rich or even making money at all. I create music because I love music and I get satisfaction from creating. It's art. Of course it feels good when other people hear my music and enjoy it and if given the oppurtunity I would definitely make a career out of it. I would love nothing more than to go on tour and play for as many people as possible. Will that happen? Who knows, but I'll be here creating music no matter what. I believe that if one's soul motivation for creating art is to get rich then that is almost guaranteed to NOT happen. Not to mention the side effects. There shit will most likely suck because there's no passion or love put into it. It's just a product.

I agree bands like Throbbing Gristle, TSOL, Choking Victim etc. had no agenda. And I like NIN too but Trent is a whiny fucker and his lyrics become very tiresome when he writes the same song over and over again. Also, I was just using Green Day as an example. They are a bit on the pussy-ish side but I honestly like most of their stuff and I'm not afraid to admit it. I only make that point because people do talk shit because I like Green Day. I feel like a fucking teeny bopper sometimes but I don't care about their cultural signifigance or if 12 yr. olds love them or if some elitist hipster thinks they're lame because they've sold a million records. I like their music so I have them on my Ipod and I go and see them when they come to town. I feel the same way about Left-Over Crack,Bright Eyes, Blur, Bauhaus, rasputina, Emilie Autumn, Richie Hawtin, etc.

The point I was making is that if you like someones music who gives a fuck about what other people think of them Listen to what u like.

[Theo Void]

I too am a bit late to the Dub-step party. A few years ago when I went to a party and some DJ insisted on playing nothing but dub-step for an hour and a half, I would usually go and buy a lethal dose of heroin, shoot up and hope to die quickly and quietly. (just kidding.) But you get the point. I fucking hated it! But lately, w/ all this "mid-range" bro-step stuff coming out, I'm kinda diggin' it!

I realize that everybody and their mother is hating on this particular style but that always happens when something breaks into mainstream. Either the the original underground fans don't feel "elite" enough anymore or the hipsters discount it because they're way to cool to like something that everyone else likes.

If you go over to the DubStep Forums you'll see how deep the hatred for Skrillex goes. People, (mostly wanna be producers) absolutely hate this dude! I think it's pure jeoulosy but I suspect there are a few dubstep purists who find it loud, noisy, screechy and offensive. I think it's pretty awesome! Dude's got some serious production skills. I mean talk about some surgical edits. And, on top of that there are thousands of threads that are some variation of: "how to make skrillex growling/talking bass." "How to get Skrillex synth using Massive. etc etc. I mean, dude completely took over Beatport for like three weeks. I don't think anyone else has ever achieved that. I'm not the type of person who hates on artist's just because they're popular. I' don't give a fuck how many people like them, if I enjoy the music then I'll listen to it. Shit, I still love Greenday even though I think most people despise them for "selling out."

It's the old "punk" attitude but w/o the attitude. (lol.) I mean, it's popular for a reason, probably because it's good. (Not in all cases, obviously.) But if you listen to this new mid-range dub-step or electro, the stuff is very well produced! It does take some creativity and skill to produce this stuff. Electro, or complextro, (I think they call it.) usually has at least 5-7 bass tracks layered and arranged to complement each other in a call/response fashion. And you need to have a creative mind to think of this shit! I mean, this isn't 4/4 kick + Saw-wave sidecahined to kick + dreamy pad + synth = Respected electronica producer. These days it's way too easy to throw a few loops together and call yourself a producer. These people are mangling the fuck out of audio using these amazing tools we all love so much.

OK I'm done. If you actually read all this I applaud you. So, what do ya think?

I did read it, and +1

Nice!!!!!

[Machinesworking]

I believe that if one's soul motivation for creating art is to get rich then that is almost guaranteed to NOT happen. Not to mention the side effects. There shit will most likely suck because there's no passion or love put into it. It's just a product.

Well in the sense that it's a product and it's geared towards making the most wide range of people happy, I guess you could say that's where the soul dies, it's not a personal message, it's a wide ranging list of musical tools that most people like.
Sometimes though it's fun to keep some of the rules in mind though. For instance most people have an attention span muscially of about 3 1/2 to 4 minutes, and I do recognize the legitimacy of that.

I agree bands like Throbbing Gristle, TSOL, Choking Victim etc. had no agenda. And I like NIN too but Trent is a whiny fucker and his lyrics become very tiresome when he writes the same song over and over again. Also, I was just using Green Day as an example. They are a bit on the pussy-ish side but I honestly like most of their stuff and I'm not afraid to admit it. I only make that point because people do talk shit because I like Green Day. I feel like a fucking teeny bopper sometimes but I don't care about their cultural signifigance or if 12 yr. olds love them or if some elitist hipster thinks they're lame because they've sold a million records. I like their music so I have them on my Ipod and I go and see them when they come to town. I feel the same way about Left-Over Crack,Bright Eyes, Blur, Bauhaus, rasputina, Emilie Autumn, Richie Hawtin, etc.

I don't think there's any shame in liking some pop music, occasionally I do too, it's not like the people that make it hate music and want to make the most boring music possible, they just don't take many chances, that's all. My point was that there are styles of music and bands that if they were to tomorrow completely change their lyrical and musical style into something less confrontational, it would not be some sort of awful thing IMO if people called them out on selling out, in fact they should. One thing that happened with Grunge was it gave legitimacy to the idea that you could do "legitimate" music and still be a major record label band etc. which is true, but you lose something in the process. You have to argue with the label about anything you do that's out of control etc. For instance the label had another producer step in and mix Heart Shaped Box and a few other songs on In Utero that were considered radio friendly, because Steve Albini was too "radical" in his approach...

The point I was making is that if you like someones music who gives a fuck about what other people think of them Listen to what u like.

Exactly, but I sure as hell don't defend songs or bands I like that are bubble gum pop. I think that's kinda where people go astray, I like Poker face by Gaga, Single Ladies by Beyonce, In For the Kill by La Rouge etc. but I sure as hell don't give a rats ass if someone hates those songs, it's shameless pop, not music for arts sake like you mentioned earlier. It's not impossible to have both good and bad taste, be honest if you go into detail about music with other people they'll mention songs or bands that drive you batshit insane!

[razorblade]

I don't mind a little dubstep tossed into the mix, but a whole night of wobble is pretty painful.

That being said, I find it kinda fun to actually play(in the same way I occassionally indulge in a screaming guitar feedback noisefest), especially through a big booming system.

[Theo Void]