Ableton Forum

the laws arent clear anywhere in the EC at the moment, the digital rights laws havent been updated since the legal (pay to)download services came about, so its a hugely gray area, but it seems even more so in italy!

any idea which dj this was?

bod wrote:the laws arent clear anywhere in the EC at the moment, the digital rights laws havent been updated since the legal (pay to)download services came about, so its a hugely gray area, but it seems even more so in italy!

Theres a good article in last weeks DJ mag (UK) on downloads and MP3's one subject it covers is the use of MP3's in clubs/live environements. As such there isn't a law against using MP3's....but then there's no Law that says you can...its a very grey area and apparently hard to police.

Check DJmag (it has LCD soundsystem on the cover).

marzio wrote: the law is still not clear to all of us that are using laptops live here.

lots of law are not clear in italy...

It's kind of a catch-22. If this guy had to buy his music, he probably would not be able to make a living at it.

bod wrote:http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtm ... ID=7651166

pretty hefty fine! by all accounts the italians have disco police (for want of a better name :wink: ) who go to clubs and demand djs prove, on the spot, that the music they have on cdr's and laptops is music they own legally.

sounds pretty impossible if you ask me.

This is absolutely ridiculous, and yet another example of how "the establishment" over react and single out issues in areas they don't understand, just to make a political point at the expense of the general public. This reminds me of The Sun newspaper in the UK, after Acid House kicked off. Their aggressive, ignorant and hypocritical journalistic approach (like none of their journo's every did drugs!?), pretty much oiled the wheels of the the criminal justice bill, again, to fuel a cheap political message. This a dangerous path to go down, and whilst I understand that piracy is a contentious subject, I for one think if you support this heavy handed approach, you're in the wrong business or need to reconsider your view point carefully.

robin wrote:

Rx wrote:this isn't that ridiculous. if you're making a living off music, there is NO excuse not to buy it.

absolutely right. if you're not making a living from it it's pretty hard to justify too.

The fine seems a bit excessive though. 1.3 million - if the guy was really really rich I suppose, but even then - if they want to set a precedent they don't have to fine that heavily.

Yes, the fine does seem a bit stiff, but we've had crackdowns here in South Africa too! Each copy (CDR) that the cops catch you with is fined $150, music stores have been having their best sales ever! It's great!

i think the point behind a fine is to make someone regret their actions, not let them feel vindicated by making them pay the retail price.

of course, if they really want to make an impression, tell people they'll go to prison, meet the Tossed Salad Man and become his bitch.

This is happening in Portugal as well, they fine not only DJs but also owners of the venues.

I certainly think one shouldn't "steal" music and resell it. (I don't think "steal" is the right term though if the creators disseminate the music all over the net and love the free exposure it gets them and the name they build up by having their tracks played by the best DJs, then all of a sudden one day whine that their music was "stolen" and used w/o permission.) But whether one should "steal" music to use for a live performance... I think you need more facts to pass moral judgment on it. Don't think this fine has any rational relation to how much money this guy makes. I'd be surprised if he makes five figures a year (seriously). The choice for him may be don't pay for the overpriced tracks or don't be a DJ.

I really think people have to let go of the idea of owning music. Performing music is where the money is and should be at. Good DJs, DJs that make money, do a lot more than "steal" tracks, play them in order, and get paid. Good DJs make new compositions out of the them. Their audience is interested in (and interested in paying for) only that added value. I don't know how to or who should draw a line between a good and bad DJ. But if you let go of the idea of ownership, maybe just make club owners pay the kind of license fee they pay to play radio or tv in a bar; that could work.

And keep in mind through all of this... It's not the artists suing! Here it's the Italian equivalent of the fucking RIAA, which could give two shits about intellectual property or paying artists. RIAA cares only about record industry profits and resists digital advances that empower artists, because those same advances take power away from record labels.

how long do you think it would take to verify the legallity of 7000 songs? if the police expect you to do that "on the spot" they had better bring some sandwiches... and maybe a book or something else to do. besides, what about tracks that are freely available online, creative commons and what not?

k

robin wrote:Makes people think twice about stealing music though doesn't it? Can only be a good thing.

makes people think twice about DJing in Italy

they did an item on dutch television once, about old Italian laws. apparently there are still all kinds of Mussolini laws still in effect. i think they had an example about topless sunbathing, for which they now use an old law to fine people for thousands of euros. or maybe it was playing soccer at the beach or something like that.

I can not understand why the DJ has to pay. Doesn't the club have to pay royalties/a licence for public broadcasting music? Then it should be totally unimportant where the music was bought or copied.

I guess this is all propaganda. This will lead us to a society, where public places are totally owned by the big four or five multinational companys, and underground will only happen behind closed doors. That they make people stop filesharing in public places like soulseek doesn't mean that people stop filesharing. If they put "digital rights management" on commercial releases people will stop buying them. And buy underground releases on concerts or from specialist shops, hehe.

Remember: In socialist countries people even could have to go to jail for having records from the west. Did that make them stop to listen to pop-music?