Ableton Forum

Did I miss something or is there no noticeable difference between the features listed and what Live currently has? I can't believe how much it looks like Live. Shameless.

Is this a bloody copy of Live or not ?

pulsoc wrote:I can't believe how much it looks like Live. Shameless.

Can you believe how much Studio One looks like Cubase? How much Reaper looks like Logic? How much Coke looks like Pepsi?

Only surprise here is that copycat competitors haven't popped up sooner.

-M

There are huge yet basic things the Bitwig folks could do to immediately wrestle the live performance market away from Ableton.

The Abes totally lost focus on Live as a performance tool around the time that M4L was announced. Hell, before that even...lol. Imagine...spending time on M4L when basic MIDI and routing functionality and OSC support still wasn't implemented.

However, I've got a feeling that Bitwig are going to fuck it all up by releasing a product before it's ready. Already their list of 'future updates' is like...wtf?

It'll be hilarious if tons of users get an immediate crash on first load.
I would think a big part of what they'd want to show off though is stability.
/shrug
When it comes to Lan and internet features an advantage they could have is learning from history ie Ninjam/OhmStudio.

It'll be disappointing if Ableton charges what they usually do for a 9 update.

LoopStationZebra wrote:There are huge yet basic things the Bitwig folks could do to immediately wrestle the live performance market away from Ableton.

The Abes totally lost focus on Live as a performance tool around the time that M4L was announced. Hell, before that even...lol. Imagine...spending time on M4L when basic MIDI and routing functionality and OSC support still wasn't implemented.

However, I've got a feeling that Bitwig are going to fuck it all up by releasing a product before it's ready. Already their list of 'future updates' is like...wtf?

hard to tell as of yet. They could release a solid as hell product and only implement changes when they're done, or they could be foolish about it.

One thing, if they're planning on beating Live in terms of being a live performance instrument and VST host, so far they haven't really boasted about anything that's better than Live in that regard, which is my main disappointment with the previews. It's possible they're holding out so they get to implement it before others do but I'm not holding out hope there.

Not a peep about even basic MIDI functionality/OSC.

And, let's face it, creating a brand new DAW at this point in Human History without full iOS support would be foolish.

LoopStationZebra wrote:full iOS support

What do you mean by that?

^ Basically native support for a companion iOS controller app made by the same company.

Damn straight!

stringtapper wrote:^ Basically native support for a companion iOS controller app made by the same company.

See, I don't like that. Right now Bitwig's developer team is three guys. If they were to hire another three Obj-C gurus just to do the app, maybe I could get behind that, but having made that kind of commitment, they'd likely do what everyone else does and build in arbitrary restrictions that make Bitwig more difficult/impossible to use with alternate controllers.

I'd much prefer to see a very robust MIDI/OSC implementation that will allow Bitwig to pair well with everything from a Launchpad, to Konkreet Performer and Lemur for iPad, to controllers that don't even exist yet.

Ryanmf wrote:I'd much prefer to see a very robust MIDI/OSC implementation that will allow Bitwig to pair well with everything from a Launchpad, to Konkreet Performer and Lemur for iPad, to controllers that don't even exist yet.

Not sure why you think the two are mutually exclusive. To my mind native support for a companion iOS controller sort of implies a "robust MIDI/OSC implementation." Having a dedicated iOS controller doesn't automatically mean no other controllers can be supported.

stringtapper wrote:

Ryanmf wrote:I'd much prefer to see a very robust MIDI/OSC implementation that will allow Bitwig to pair well with everything from a Launchpad, to Konkreet Performer and Lemur for iPad, to controllers that don't even exist yet.

Not sure why you think the two are mutually exclusive. To my mind native support for a companion iOS controller sort of implies a "robust MIDI/OSC implementation." Having a dedicated iOS controller doesn't automatically mean no other controllers can be supported.

As a technical matter, they certainly aren't mutually exclusive. From a business strategy perspective, Bitwig would be defying a fairly universal trend by devoting time and money to producing a comprehensive controller app as well as leaving the door open for others to replicate that functionality with third party/custom controllers and apps. If that's how it plays out, users definitely benefit and I'll be something approaching ecstatic.

...they'd likely do what everyone else does and build in arbitrary restrictions that make Bitwig more difficult/impossible to use with alternate controllers.

I caught up to that thought later. Initially I thought ideally how a good company would cover all its bases and do it well, and if not, there'd always be alternatives, but they'd be more likely to not keep it open because of the work they put into it:/

Imagining if StudioOne, for a different example, had a kickass native controller app that couldn't be beat would be great, because it would show Presonus is "with it" (I feel like a parent now). But, since any app is going to have MIDI/OSC support anyway then they won't be mutually exclusive.

Custom user interfaces like TouchOsc and Lemur is going to be the norm in no time. I'm thinking by a couple years more than half users will be rolling their own; they're soo easy to make, and you know everyone loves to show off their bling.

It wouldn't be a priority for Bitwig at this point, especially if they have a chance to make live Lan/internet collab a mainstream success.
Even if others work fine, you're not hearing about it. Perhaps that's a corner they can own, which would be a good enough excuse to make people chill out with the Live comparison. At least until Ableton tries to do it.
So yeah, they just need to have some makeup sex and spawn LiveWig.

Sorry, went off on a tangent there.

Put it this way....no other DAW that I'm aware of has it's own native iOS controller app and/or truly mobile version that could sync up perfectly. Imagine sketching out some great riffs on the iPad/iPhone version of the DAW, then connecting it with the main DAW for flawless studio or LIVE performance sync.

No one is even thinking along those lines that I'm aware of....

oMfG