Ableton Forum

CarlSeleborg wrote:Hi Leipies,

It seems to me that we're not doing anything differently than Bitwig. Just like them, we spend a lot of time working on the next version (the first in their case), and when we feel we're ready, we announce it and then it takes a little while before the actual release. For 3 years, Bitwig said no word about what their software would do, just like Ableton has always done. I see little difference here!

Believe me, we're not asleep! A lot of us would just love to tell you guys about Live 9, because it will be a kick-ass release. It's a little frustrating for us as well, but that's the game. On the other hand, Bitwig just announced their software, which they've been working hard on for a long time, so it's only fair that they get their share of attention now.

However you're right on one point: we do welcome competition! We've been sitting alone in our market segment for a very long time, and there's nothing better than competition to wake you up and release the good creative energy, and boy do we have that in store! We're very much looking forward to competing on features, user benefit and innovation, but please bear with us if we choose not to play the Internet-buzz game, because it's not in our values and we're working hard on stuff that matters instead.

Let's wait for Bitwig Studio to be released, and may the best product win!

Carl

Gotta tip my hat for a very diplomatic post!

leipies wrote:

ze2be wrote: And you know nothing about Live 8? 9 will have ALL the futures of 8, and most likely some new stuf too. In other words, you know a shit load more about Live 9 then Bitwig, if you open your eyes. At least 90%. Its been coded, bug fixed and polished for 8 versions.

If you go back and reread my initial post you will see I'm a huge fan of Ableton. I want nothing more than for Live 9 to be amazing because I truly want to stay with Ableton. But I just think they need to step their game up a bit because even though they are one of the most innovative DAWs, they are getting outdated in some very basic ways.

I highly doubt that ableton does not have something pretty great to answer the bitwig challenge. Good times ahead regardless of which direction you choose to take.

leipies gets the only response from Ableton to any of these "Live 9 its about time" threads that i've seen on this forum and all he has to say about it boils down to:

thats why i extracted carls quote to that other thread, i was like WTF!

they just blew right by the only message from Ab there has been

more money than sense.

leipies wrote: • An aesthetically pleasing GUI

Its a Joke?
1- Ableton Live is the DAW with the nicest and more functional GUI, there's good taste in the design, and I love the minimal philosophy behind it.
2- Bitwig looks like Live, maybe some changes so it doesnt look like a complete rip-off

And, besides that, seriously, you expect Bitwig to have more features than Live 8? Yeah, maybe some unique things ,but in an overall view, I dont expect it to be more complete than Live 8.
And I bet you that Live 9 will be the best, hands down.

unless bw v1 release is ridiculously cheap... (as in the 99$ range...)
or has some features I can't live without (can't imagine what they can be...)
I'm still with Ableton all the way regardless... too far down the hole..
but I'll contemplate on having both once I get to test it..

besides that.. I fail to see what "Social" activities bw have participated in ?
bitwig only anounced that "soon" they will be releasing a beta..
not a word since.. afaik they didn't even show up to NAMM ... just had a mailbox (?! )
and as far as I can tell..
bw s only selling point is to be an alternative to Ableton..
and we hadn't even seen how good it is at that.. only some edited preview video...
tell me.. what happens when NI drop their version of a DAW? (hypothetically speaking..)
how big of a market will they have ? Ableton is still ( a lot ) of steps ahead of the pack..
if Live was to simply equate the features of bw... that would be enough.. (unless they get bought by Apple or some similar occurrence)
just saying..
it's been done before.. this thing went for 79$ at one point (before it got closed down..)
http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2005/04/ ... ject-5-v2/
(WATCH IT !)

in the not so far away future.. I see other DAWS implementing 'the grid' prespective..
if only because the 'traditional' sequencer has probably reached a point where it's really hard to think up new features for it..
eventually the plain will be leveled.. (also for 'workflow'...) and it'll all boil down to the one thing ..it's a matter of taste..
new tastes are welcome..

imo the BW 'rollout' has been poorly handled...if thats any indication

if that other thread is to be believed it will be about $400?...they must think that their product is about 2/3 as good as Live

Bitwig = Too much buzz, not enough detail
Ableton = No buzz at all, no details at all

In this situation Bitwig wins.

There has to be some buzz or when Bitwig comes out, people will use their funds to buy it rather than wait for Live 9. Once Live 9 comes out...well...they already shelled out money for Bitwig so can I afford to do another purchase of Live 9?

With just a little bit of buzz, people will likely hold out until they see Live 9.

That's just a little bit if advice over to the folks at Ableton - Use your community size to your advantage!

Bitwig wins what?

Before speaking on behalf of what everyone will do, I'm betting plenty of people will have enough patience to hold out for 9.
Between probably having a trial and good introductory price, it's not going to hurt trying or using BW while waiting for Live. Then there are reviews which people can get informed about as well. And then there are people who couldn't care less about BW.

Let Ableton do what they're doing, I doubt it won't be worth it after all this time and silence. Talk is cheap. Why would it be in their interest to not keep happy customers?

Is it difficult to conceive that this doesn't have to be about win/lose? Things fluctuate. Let Bitwig have it's limelight and make a few bucks, then daddy can come back with some more tricks up his sleeves.
This is good for all of us.

H20nly wrote:leipies gets the only response from Ableton to any of these "Live 9 its about time" threads that i've seen on this forum and all he has to say about it boils down to:

Maybe that's because I hit a nerve with Bitwig. Great contribution to the thread though, thanks for being awesome!

Capitan Mission wrote:

leipies wrote: • An aesthetically pleasing GUI

Its a Joke?
1- Ableton Live is the DAW with the nicest and more functional GUI, there's good taste in the design, and I love the minimal philosophy behind it.
2- Bitwig looks like Live, maybe some changes so it doesnt look like a complete rip-off

And, besides that, seriously, you expect Bitwig to have more features than Live 8? Yeah, maybe some unique things ,but in an overall view, I dont expect it to be more complete than Live 8.
And I bet you that Live 9 will be the best, hands down.

It's not a joke.

1.) There are many people not satisfied with the GUI and a simple choice to switch between a minimal or a more traditional design would suffice. Aesthetics are important (imho) when creating music, and when you are uninspired by what you stare at for hours on end, it can have an overall negative effect.

2.) Bitwig looks more like a mixture of Live, Logic and The NI Maschine interface.

shadx312 wrote: Is it difficult to conceive that this doesn't have to be about win/lose? Things fluctuate. Let Bitwig have it's limelight and make a few bucks, then daddy can come back with some more tricks up his sleeves.
This is good for all of us.

Couldn't agree more.

simmerdown wrote:thats why i extracted carls quote to that other thread, i was like WTF!

they just blew right by the only message from Ab there has been

That's because the message didn't say anything other than a roundabout way of telling us there is still no info about Live 9. What's so interesting about sharing that?

"daddy" wasn't really the word I should've used; that was kind of lazy, but younawamsayin.

CarlSeleborg wrote:Hi Leipies,

It seems to me that we're not doing anything differently than Bitwig. Just like them, we spend a lot of time working on the next version (the first in their case), and when we feel we're ready, we announce it and then it takes a little while before the actual release. For 3 years, Bitwig said no word about what their software would do, just like Ableton has always done. I see little difference here!

Believe me, we're not asleep! A lot of us would just love to tell you guys about Live 9, because it will be a kick-ass release. It's a little frustrating for us as well, but that's the game. On the other hand, Bitwig just announced their software, which they've been working hard on for a long time, so it's only fair that they get their share of attention now.

However you're right on one point: we do welcome competition! We've been sitting alone in our market segment for a very long time, and there's nothing better than competition to wake you up and release the good creative energy, and boy do we have that in store! We're very much looking forward to competing on features, user benefit and innovation, but please bear with us if we choose not to play the Internet-buzz game, because it's not in our values and we're working hard on stuff that matters instead.

Let's wait for Bitwig Studio to be released, and may the best product win!

Carl

Wow well done. This is the type of high integrity I love about Ableton. Looking forward to what's in store.