Purpose of 320kbps for analog DJing?

[Tone Deft]

he did say he's just starting out. I can understand not knowing but where's the real passion? I love this shit.

I wouldn't put it as being known to DJ quality audio, that shouldn't even be a question. telling that to a promoter would probably just make you sound noobish. if they ask then you can say 'I only play tracks at 320kbps or wav' without question. AFAIK all they care about is how many people you can get into the bar to buy liquor.

maybe we bust this guys balls a bit to get him to level up more quickly. it sounds like he wants it, he needs to do some 'work.' this stuff is fun. I love knowing where the dirty details are and knowing when to worry about them. it usually doesn't matter.

[rydn]

I dare anyone to do a double-blind-test with the same audio file as .wav and as a 320 mp3. You can't hear a difference, really.
(That is of course if the encoding was done properly and the source material doesn't sound like shit to begin with )

I'm not going to go through the trouble, but with decent source material I am completely confident I can tell the deference. And I don't have perfect ears.

I think a decent comparison is the difference between external audio, like a synth, at 44100 at 16 bit (CD information density) and 96000 at 24 bit. I always figured the difference would be really subtle, but when I finally tried it the difference was really acute, for me. So I've already rejected CD wave quality as good enough (for source material), let alone a bit crushed version of it.

---

Anyways, why even bother with anything less than 320kps or really waves? Hard drive space is not expensive at all. You can get a 2TB drive for like $100ish. I'm not saying that's non-money for everyone, but if that's what it take to be able to use files you can be confident in, then make it happen.

[florian_bl]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that everybody will hear the difference between certain compression rates and linear files. Not when being forced to do a blind test on speakers or headphones in a controlled environment. They turn on their brain too much to be open to hear it. But a lot more people than we might think will feel a difference in the punch when hearing it on high volume in the club. Especially when the DJ before or after you is playing stuff with better audio quality.

Even between 320 kbps MP3s encoded with the LAME codec and the same file as 44,1 kHz / 16 bit WAV and played back on medium quality converters it is possible to notice a difference. After many years of engineering, especially mastering, it is no problem to spot this in a blind test with most tracks that I have tried (house & techno). Also on medium quality headphones I can still hear it. With low bitrates the artefacts after the transients are most noticable. It's the sound that engineers call "space monkeys". You can't hear this in a well made 320 kbps MP3. But there is a difference in how much impact the sounds can have when everything is full on in the middle of the song. The missing transients in MP3s will make it sound smaller and less punchy compared to the linear file. That's a very simplified way to say it, of course.

What people in before wrote about DJing is a good point. Go to the club before they let people in, have some files prepared in different quality levels and get somebody to do a blind test with you. Maybe you come to the conclusion that what I say doesn't go along with what you experience. Then it's good too because you have an opinion that helps you choose what files to buy. For me, after 15 years of DJing and engineering, discovering that I can hear so much difference made me rebuy all my important digital files as WAV although I payed for them already when I got the MP3s. Quite nerdy, maybe, but it's good to know that you have the best possible sound quality when getting into the DJ booth and it's your job to do something bigger with it for the rest of the night.

[cotdagoo]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that everybody will hear the difference between certain compression rates and linear files. Not when being forced to do a blind test on speakers or headphones in a controlled environment. They turn on their brain too much to be open to hear it. But a lot more people than we might think will feel a difference in the punch when hearing it on high volume in the club. Especially when the DJ before or after you is playing stuff with better audio quality.

..

What people in before wrote about DJing is a good point. Go to the club before they let people in, have some files prepared in different quality levels and get somebody to do a blind test with you. Maybe you come to the conclusion that what I say doesn't go along with what you experience. Then it's good too because you have an opinion that helps you choose what files to buy. For me, after 15 years of DJing and engineering, discovering that I can hear so much difference made me rebuy all my important digital files as WAV although I payed for them already when I got the MP3s. Quite nerdy, maybe, but it's good to know that you have the best possible sound quality when getting into the DJ booth and it's your job to do something bigger with it for the rest of the night.

Can't agree more to both these points, especially the stuff in bold.

Sounding worse than the DJ before or after you is a bad situation in any club on any sound system.

[willdahbe]

I don't dj with anything less then 320kbps, well vary rarely do I go lower then that. Even if the sound system isn't up to par, having a shitty sounding 192kbps doesn't really add to the fidelity that could be. Also using higher quality files (320/wav) means that when changing the tempo of a track timestretching will sound much better then that of a 192kbps track.

[cotdagoo]

Guys, jesus, I'm just trying to get some information here. Really no need to shit on me for asking some questions in a field that I am new in. I understand that many (if not all of you) are incredibly experienced DJs and technicians, and I, a mere peon, but cut me some slack. Just trying to get use the forums for they are here for, sharing and contributing information.

Dude, jesus, there's oodles of information about this all over the internet and you seemed to ask a very silly question to a bunch of 'experienced DJs and technicians' - how did you think this would go?

What research did you do before coming in here to ask? The reaction you got is because the information is so readily available with a few searches (google or this forum even) that it appeared you did nothing at all to try and answer the question yourself.

As others pointed out, GO TRY STUFF OUT.. Presumably if you're playing at a club, you have the ability to be there early for soundcheck and listen to a few tracks without a room full of people.

And sorry if those who've spent the time & effort LEARNING about their craft don't cut someone slack who seems to have made no effort to figure it out themselves other than posting in a forum.. Instead of getting pissy to those with experience telling you whats up.. maybe you should take the information given and put it to some good use. Afterall.. your question did get answered, plus some.

[matthews]

Don't worry about it man, you're just starting off and its a fair question. Maybe try a simple google search first though before making a thread in here (especially for rudimentary info) , you'll get the same answers but without the criticism. Welcome to the forum, for the most part its a great source for information and to have your questions answered. All the best.

[Bagatell]

Welcome to the forum, for the most part its a great source for information and to have your questions answered.

To say nothing of character building and hide toughening.

All the best.

You'll probably need it!

[hacktheplanet]

Once upon a time, when I was but a young music pirate, I remember downloading 112kbps MP3s from Scour and Napster on my trusty 56k connection. They sounded OK to my ears, and 112kpbs was my go-to bitrate. Then I decided to bump it up to 128, and it was like night and day, I tell you! The quality difference was astounding. I had a formidable music library for years and years, all at 128.

After we finally got broadband, I tried 160 and 192. I was addicted at that point. I'd spend days and days making sure my entire music library was carefully organized into folders, with the tracks names appropriately. I even had to buy a few larger hard drives, and started making regular backups to CD. Before with dialup, I could only download singles I really liked. When broadband came about, I was able to download full albums! Much of my time was spent hunting for the albums I had singles for.

It's just gotten worse these days. The majority of my library is 320, but slowly it's transitioning to uncompressed when I can find the track on CD. Help me.

[regretfullySaid]

Only one person mentioned LAME and this part is getting overlooked. Not all mp3 codecs are the same. LAME has always been superior and you can definitely tell the difference from the Napster days when people were converting with different codecs. A codec at 128 or 192 that wasn't LAME sounded like ass, while LAME did a very impressive job at lower rates.

Either way, take your job seriously and use WAV or vinyl.
Ok, I won't neglect FLAC which never seems to get enough love, if you're that desparate to save hd space.

[mrobare]

with hard drives so cheap why not
just use flac?

(FLAC stands for Free Lossless Audio Codec)

devobtch

[regretfullySaid]

Really just mentioned FLAC because it seems to be ignored by people who ask about compressed audio.
And it does compress well at the highest setting but seriously, why the fuck would you bother with compressed music unless there is absolutely no other alternative? Or for effect

[ttilberg]

Lol.

Sorry you were destroyed for asking that question, for all the flaming that happened, people could have just said "Google it" and left it at that, or just ignored the question entirely. Or as some have been in recent posts, provide insightful comments. At the same time, asking about MP3 bitrate is about as exciting red meat troll bait as asking "what OS should I use," or "what laptop should I buy?" (please don't ask those questions )

My personal preference is to play nothing lower than 320, and sometimes I'll buy the .WAV of tracks I know are killer, and wan't to absolutely have maximum impact. People often state that "HD Space is so cheap! buy .WAV!" but there is also the extra $$$ associated with buying higher quality music. And maybe you don't want to use an external HD for holding your music. And maybe you have a massive sample library installed on your laptop, because you use it for production too... etc etc.

In short, you were flamed because everyone's situation is very different. Depending on what you are doing with your DJing career, the additional cost, and other factors might influence your choice. If you are happy with what you are doing, great. Realize that there will always be room for improvement in every aspect of your rig. No one starts out megaboss. Some are easier to affect than others, but you've gotta start somewhere right?

If you are playing for house parties, or some small/medium venues, 320 should always at least get you by, but what these guys are saying about a "statement of your quality" definitely holds true.

Another thing that is almost as important as high quality files, is to find an external soundcard if you don't already have one. A decent super super cheap option is the NI Audio 2.

Also, quick note:
Some tracks are encoded as Variable BitRate. 192 VBR sounds quite better than 192 constant BR. What ShadX said about the encoder used also makes a big splash. The biggest hint truly is "If it sounds like junk, trash it immediately."

[regretfullySaid]

I actually put in a FR for Live to do that for me ! I need to get one for work:p

[Tone Deft]

the knowledge the OP seeks can be found without going to strangers on the interweb to qualify what sounds good. do some work.



yes, 128kbps mp3s are what you should always DJ with but always pan them hard left and bounce to mono. you should ALWAYS use compression, EQ and reverb on everything all the time.

/thread