struggling with leads and harmony in general

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
jellycaster
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Re: struggling with leads and harmony in general

Post by jellycaster » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:13 pm

dokx wrote:Just fill a bar with 16th notes on C3, then go on moving around the notes by octaves (12 steps), fifths (7 steps), thirds (5 steps) etc, deleting some, shortening some, stretching out some - just mess around, you'll find useful stuff in the end.
if you do this you'll never learn anything.

like most of the other posters in this thread, i recommend you get to grips with the basics of music theory. you just need enough to be able to come up with melodic ideas in your head, and then get those down onto the piano roll. it'll take a bit of time to begin with, but if you are even vaguely serious about writing good music, i don't think there's an alternative.

simmerdown
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Re: struggling with leads and harmony in general

Post by simmerdown » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:03 pm

i think there is a fundamental misunderstanding as to what theory is and what it isnt

if you see it as a confining box, where you are bound by strict rules that stifle creativity, you've got it all wrong..this is the common (mis)perception

maybe we should drop the 'Theory' part and call it just...Music....learn Music

Angstrom
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Re: struggling with leads and harmony in general

Post by Angstrom » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:28 pm

can I just be very clear here incase anyone misread my post and is trying to create a strawman.

please read again
Angstrom wrote:As much as theory is useful, I'm not sure that theory is at the core of this issue.
yes, theory is very important but also that not being able to come up with a melody is a deeper problem. When I was 3 years old I whistled and I came up with melodies. Melodies tend to come naturally, and then you learn theory to know how the hell to manage them.

cpyatak
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Re: struggling with leads and harmony in general

Post by cpyatak » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:13 pm

max crespo wrote:it seems like everytime i hop on ableton i put together a really strong drum beat and bassline but when it comes to the harmony and lead i always get stuck.

how can i get past this?

We should work together. I'm great on melody, chord structure and progression, (and can rock some great basslines too) but shite on drums. What kind of music are you working on?

:)

Chris

stringtapper
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Re: struggling with leads and harmony in general

Post by stringtapper » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:07 pm

simmerdown wrote:maybe we should drop the 'Theory' part and call it just...Music....learn Music
Music theorists call it "music fundamentals" since teaching it it is only a sub-discipline of what we do. "Music theory" includes things like analysis which can be anything from a scholarly paper on a classical composition with Schenkerian graphs to simply listening to a melody by an artist one admires in order to figure out why they like it.

There are a lot of people in the world who *play music* in one way or another and to varying degrees of sophistication. Having the fundamentals of how music within the Western tonal tradition works is sort of a given among many working musicians but not necessarily among those who just "play." Some people may have learned certain aspects of music fundamentals without really knowing it, without having names for the things they've learned. Ear training is where this happens the most. You have a kid who grew up singing in church and he will be able to match any pitch he hears but he might not be able to tell you what the interval was between the two pitches he just sang.

So then it comes down to what Angstrom said about being able to "figure out what to do" with what you're hearing in your head. That's where the music fundamentals of pitch, interval, scale and chord nomenclature come into play to help you organize the things you're hearing so you can either produce other sounds that make sense with the melody you've written or so you can play with other musicians. Other fundamentals such as notation can further help. Of course it depends on what you want to do. But the fundamentals aren't the end all be all, they're only the beginning. Knowing theory (fundamentals) doesn't guarantee sophistication in musical art, it just provides the best foundation on which to build musical art, sophisticated or otherwise.
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patrick.olson86
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Re: struggling with leads and harmony in general

Post by patrick.olson86 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:03 pm

Consider your bass notes. If your workflow is to create drum n bass first, then you really have to base your leads off of your bass. Whatever note you're hitting most of the time will be called your "root" note (more than likely). Use that as a starting point for your scale. This is where theory comes in handy. Is it a major or minor scale? What mode would fit over this? In live, you can drop a midi scale effect on your lead instrument and every note you hit will play in that scale even if you mess up on your keyboard. But this is a good starting point, nonetheless. Fool around with the lead from there.

Don't overcomplicate it. You don't hear singers singing 5 different notes in every bar throughout the entire song, right? Keep it simple, add some intricacy where you feel it needs to be. As someone said earlier, sing the melody yourself. Then, try and play that melody until you get it right. You'll probably be so sick of it by that time that you'll hate it. But that's an obstacle we have to overcome when we hear the same loop for hours working on a project.

Good luck. Check out some theory on keys.

PS - another cool trick is to use the arpeggiator and play chords. The notes played out of the arppeggiator will be chord tones. So, as long as the chord fits the song, the notes of the chord should fit as well.

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