Please improve the latency delay compensation before all

computo · Post by **computo** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:45 pm

am I missing the point, or are you people complaining about having to nudge an audio track?

randyh · Post by **randyh** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:29 pm

computo wrote:am I missing the point, or are you people complaining about having to nudge an audio track?

That's like suggesting that we draw volume envelopes to achieve compression. Yeah it's possible but terribly annoying and time consuming when you're trying to get things done in a reasonable amount of time.

-r

computo · Post by **computo** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:19 am

shyeah, dont let BT hear you say that. Hate to say it, but nudging is a dirty truth of this biz, and btw....its easy...time consuming? of course.

You arent composing by then. You're doing the dirty work, neccesary to make a good track sound that way.

So, suck it up, and do the work...its part of computer music. just be glad you arent griping about OMS or something to complain actually about that hinders your work on the computer, rather than some timesaver that Ableton wont be able to fix to a noticable degree, and likely wouldnt, as its part of the process.

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:54 am

PDC.... sure.... with a but....

Plugin delay is a little harder cause each plug will have different delay
depending on the situation, and they don't exactly have an API interface
saying "this is how long I'm taking now"..... It's actually not an easy
problem.

What is MUCH more important in my book is the much easier to
implement INPUT delay compensation.

-Ben

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:58 am

as its part of the process.

I think you'll find soon or later.... WAS part of the process.... It's little
things like this that create market space for new software which jumps
out and blows everyone away.

Tho maybe not in Live (I see this as being much more difficult then made
out here, plugin don't have the interfaces to progmatically publish their
latency).

However.....

As I said.... Input compensation is something that would be doable....
technically..... tho may still require some engine changes and hard coding
work.

-Ben

elemental · Post by **elemental** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:14 pm

sorry to those arguing against PDC,
but, as mention already, nudging/sample delay is just long and annoying and I dont wanna have ot go back to Cubase for production, this and groove quantize are the only things I might occasionally go back for, PDC is really important for computer music production nowadays - it means i wont be able to use UAD or Powercore plugs without it taking too much time.

Tarekith, I know from your posts that you dont use Live for production, so for people like you its not an issue.

I want my music to be as tight as possible, this is a big barrier to achieving that without lots of fiddling.

I'm yet to see an argument against PDC that makes sense in the light of Live's new status as a production tool.

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:53 pm

Mr Yellow, I believe VST plugins do indeed publish their latencies.

Although the neccessity of them wasn't as high in the past, now that Ableton have treaded into the DAW territory, ADC and PDC are expected of the platform.

randyh · Post by **randyh** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:07 pm

computo wrote:shyeah, dont let BT hear you say that. Hate to say it, but nudging is a dirty truth of this biz, and btw....its easy...time consuming? of course.

You arent composing by then. You're doing the dirty work, neccesary to make a good track sound that way.

So, suck it up, and do the work...its part of computer music. just be glad you arent griping about OMS or something to complain actually about that hinders your work on the computer, rather than some timesaver that Ableton wont be able to fix to a noticable degree, and likely wouldnt, as its part of the process.

Back in my day we had to walk 20 miles to school in 3 feet of snow uphill both ways.

.

computo · Post by **computo** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:57 pm

well, if you want your stuff to sound tight, you cant remove the most important part, which is timing! Its so funny to hear people talk about how they want things easier,yet they want they're music to sound as tight as possible. there is no substitute to time correction, its a tragic truth.

I hate it. Im not trying to convince anyone too like it, just that you cant get around it. PDC may be A step in the right direction, but it isnt going to make things dramatically different, certainly not to a level of making a huge difference in ms latency.

btw, at least we got to school

randyh · Post by **randyh** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:20 pm

Hmm. I'm not sure we're on the same page, computo, after that last post. Let me clarify just to be sure.

The feature I'm after and I think most others here are after is Plugin Delay Compensation. Lets say I have Impulse loaded onto track1 and I have several drums going. I pull the kick drum off onto track 2 for some independent processing. I put Vintage Warmer on it which delays the kick drum 511 samples. Now my kick is totally out of whack. At this point I can take the time to route everything else in my song to another track and put something like Voxengo's Sampledelay on there to get everything matched up again. Either that or possibly stream the kick to audio and nudge the loop backwards that many samples. Either solution is a pain in the rear. I would personally find NOT having to do this a dramatic difference.

The other hosts will detect that Vintage Warmer is delaying the signal and automatically compensate for it. Tracktion is a good example of a program with this functionality (especially because it's only an $80 program and was even free for a period).

I think it's pretty reasonable that Live have this functionality.

-r

eddu · Post by **eddu** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:45 pm

Yep, imagine you got 2 plugs on a track, 3 on another...you are in a mess if you have to compensate manually. And this problem is worst when you got some DSP card like Powercore or UAD or using FxTeleport. People if u talk about nudge and think this it´s not a critical point is because you haven´t experienced the problem yourselves. You can waste so many minutes compensating manually and you´ll be loosing your inspiration in a moment.

dlt123 · Post by **dlt123** » Mon May 09, 2005 8:53 pm

elemental wrote:YES YES YES

PDC PDC PDC PDC PDC PDC

PLEEEEEAASSEE!!!

thanks

Absolutely!!! A must have... Also, better CPU usage of VSTis either by Freezing or code improvements. Also, deeper MIDI editing. But at least, PDC!

To be honest, if Live 5 doesn't have either PDC or CPU improvements, I'm moving over to another Host.

Thanks,
DennisT

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Tue May 10, 2005 7:15 pm

Uhhm, I use live mostly for performing, so i have no need for delay compensation at all.

I don't mind if it is added, but it must be something that can be disabled, and it also must not fuck up the stability of the program.

-lm

Chris J · Post by **Chris J** » Wed May 11, 2005 10:09 am

computo,
if you were regularly multitrack recording a drum kit for instance with many different takes you'd know that nudging by hand is not an acceptable option for serious and efficient work

Please improve the latency delay compensation before all

Do you want that ableton will improve the latency delay compensation ???